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Thinking about respeccing as healer, need advice

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Thinking about respeccing as healer, need advice

Marrkin's Avatar

06.21.2012 , 03:40 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by JeffKretz View Post
I'm starting to rethink its value. My current build includes benefits for some additional dps:

But I don't think the return outweighs the cost. I'm going to try this next, eliminating any dps contributing talents:
Your second build here is what I used to run with as well. It's perfectly viable as well. I suppose part of the whole thing for me is that I have a "need" to cast some boom.

I'm a DPS'er at heart, have been in every other MMO I have ever played. Guess it carries over into my healer too
Shattner: 55 VG Tank Marrkin: 55 Sage Heals
Simmett: 55 Sentinel Hungwei'lo: 55 Sharpshooter
Guild: The Church of Alvis - Jedi Covenant Server

Khevar's Avatar

06.21.2012 , 05:03 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Marrkin View Post
Your second build here is what I used to run with as well. It's perfectly viable as well. I suppose part of the whole thing for me is that I have a "need" to cast some boom.

I'm a DPS'er at heart, have been in every other MMO I have ever played. Guess it carries over into my healer too
I have the exact same feeling! But I'm starting to get the hang of healing. Gonna try to HMs tonight and see if I can keep everyone alive.

XtremJedi's Avatar

06.21.2012 , 05:23 PM | #23
It's fine to use it, as long as you're understanding that it is in fact force negative. The question of how useful it is as a healer is a more complex one.

In general, my feeling in ToR was always that the situations when I was adding DPS were usually the situations where I didn't need to heal very much and so didn't really have pressing force management issues if I wanted to add some DPS.

I also didn't really affect the success or failure of the party against that group of mobs... though I probably increased the speed of kill. By which I mean, the party would have killed the mobs whether I focussed on healing or added in DPS. My adding DPS may have sped up the situation.... but then these were usually encounters where I didn't have that much issue with force management and so casting a cheaper Disturbance really wasn't my issue. I could afford the force to chuck out DPS without needing it to be cheaper.

Added onto all of that... the damage from disturbance isn't that great. if you've got the time to cast a couple of disturbances for DPS, you're probably better off casting a TK Throw instead which should deliver more damage, while still being low nett cost.

I suspect that there's an element in this, of people wanting to make the game-play of the Sage more interesting. There are ways to do this, that are essentially artificially adding complexity and extra dynamics to the gameplay. For most Seers focussed primarily on healing, it's questionable whether it's worth investing the points in concentration. The more you move down the continuum toward Hybrid Healer, the more sense it might make. I'd imagine that it's quite good for players who prefer DPS but find themselves needing to heal for their guild.

Of course, there are a few situations where adding a burst of DPS will kill a mob and so save you having to heal. And the classic one is that sometimes adding a bit of DPS if you can fit it in, will prevent an enrage timer. Indeed, there will always be some situations when a given build will be better than others. The question that a person needs to answer is which build works better for them, based on how they play - and how hybrid that play-style should be.


Cleet_Xia's Avatar

06.22.2012 , 02:03 PM | #24
Just to reiterate how it works.

Disturbance>FA on Tank>Rejuvenate>Deliverance

1) you CAN refresh a 3 stack of Concentration.
2) You always want to cast disturbance just in time to refresh the stack right before the buff falls off, (buff lasts 10 seconds)
3) If you don't need to refresh your 3 stack - Mind Crush/ Weaken mind/ Project? & TK throw are better casts in most cases. They do more damage per force than Disturbance. Your dots let you contribute additional dps while making healing casts.
4) The average cost of other abilities is lower than either Deliverance or Salvation even if they are cast with a Conveyance proc.
5) Without casting Disturbance (or any other long cast in it's place) - you will have to idle while the CD for Rejuvenate ends, or cast heals without the conveyance proc. ~ pick which 1 your like better...paying more force for every heal cast while Rejuv is on CD, or doing nothing.

This is NOT force positive. But heres what you get

1) FA on CD on the tank
2) 10% armor boost from Force shelter on the tank - all the time if you keep plugging Rejuvenate ~ this is bigger than you probably think.
3) 30% boost to force Regen
4) 30% reduction in the cost of Deliverance
5) mob dead faster than if you don't dps

If you only cast only the 4 abilities in the simple rotation as needed to maintain their buffs & heal, you will have 75% of your force remaining at the end of any fight your and your group are geared for. Twidle your thumbs or dps - your call....
~Master Telagtun Telag of Lord Calypho~

Khevar's Avatar

06.22.2012 , 02:47 PM | #25
During dailies, I noticed that I didn't need to spend every GCD on healing (even when soloing the Champions in Belsavis H2). So in that case I added dps to the rotation.

However, if grouped (2 players + 2 companions) I suddenly found I had too much to do that wasn't dps. Qyzen wasn't holding aggro away from the other player dps so more healing was needed all around.

Time will tell (still haven't tried a HM as a healer yet), but I'm pretty sure dps will be an insignificant part of my HM/Ops repertoire.

XtremJedi's Avatar

06.22.2012 , 05:01 PM | #26
Bleh I knew I shouldn't have got involved.

Look... one way to look at it is to say, that adding DPS is actually improving your performance as a healer, because you help to kill mobs faster and thus reduce the amount of damage they do... so you have to heal less and heal for shorter time - thus also ending up with less force issues, because the battles are shorter and you need to heal less.

But if you're going to go down this line... then from memory, TK Throw costs 30 force - 3 for Inner Strength - 24 base regen during the channel, which is 3 nett force cost - maybe a couple more if you have some alacrity - and it does more damage than disturbance. If you're casting disturbances... even refreshing a 3 stack all the time... then it's still costing you a few force every time you cast it, but delivering less damage than TK Throw.

If you're using DPS to make gains in healing by kililng mobs quicker... then TK throw would be the better choice.

But honestly, this idea that adding DPS really substantively affects the outcomes of battles, seems to me to be fairly flimsy - with the possible exception of bosses with Enrage timers, when that little bit extra DPS lets your group beat the timer. For most battles, your group would have comfortably beaten the mobs without your (really pretty puny) Seer DPS - and you'd have comfortably healed them through it too.... and most of these battles don't get near to exhausting your force reserves any way.

All you gain is maybe a few seconds per group of mobs off the combat time.... which is something of course... but whether it's worth investing tree points into Concentration and adjusting your rotations to include it, is a question people will have to answer for themselves. And let's also not forget, that when you add DPS during periods when you could be idling... you're also raising your threat profile with the mobs. You still shouldn't be pulling aggro... but it's an unnecessary added threat increase for you as a healer, when your group could have comfortably killed the mobs anyway.

There's really nothing wrong with going down a more hybrid play-style to healing. But you can do that more powerfully in other ways - and without wasting points on Concentration that really just aren't necessary. You might even prefer to go the whole hog and run a real hybrid like an Effusion Seer. I'm sure it would be great fun to play, if that's your thing. But in the vast majority of PvE situations, it's not really making you a better healer, nor does it really change the outcomes.


Khevar's Avatar

06.25.2012 , 10:59 AM | #27

I agree with this. Over the weekend I did a storymode EV run and Taral V HM. I had plenty of healing to do, and no point in my rotation had any room for an attack.

Actually, the only time dps was needed was PD-44. We were doing quite well and had almost finished him off, when the tank didn't get away from a red ring in time and was one-shotted. The second dps fell shortly thereafter. I switched to dps as a Hail Mary pass and we burned him down. Finally killed him with me and the remaining dps still standing, but only having 1% hp left.

It was exicing, albeit slightly unprofessional.