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When is bioware going to fix tank assassins in dps gear?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
When is bioware going to fix tank assassins in dps gear?

Mournblood's Avatar


Mournblood
06.24.2012 , 10:12 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Kailaurius View Post
Just so you remember we got our deserved nerf, so issue closed... right?
Not in my opinion, no.

BW didn't nerf Assassins/Shadows enough and in the right ways to discourage the practice of wearing DPS gear in a tank spec. And as it's been mentioned multiple times in multiple threads, this AC has more utitilty than any other AC in the game. They have stealth, can heal, have extremely good damage mitigation in their tank spec (at least in PvP), and do very good DPS. They have it all. It's ok to be the jack of all trades in PvP, as long as you're the master of none. In this case, and with 1.3, Tanksins still do too much DPS for a self-healing tank spec with so many tools at their disposal. Way too much. Anyone who's been on the PTS knows this. Everyone is going to see this over the next week or so when 1.3 goes live as Tanksins will still exhibit some of the same balance issues they did pre-1.3.

Juggs/Guardians have a similar issue where they are wearing DPS gear in tank specs and doing too much damage for the damage mitigation they get, although it's not as exacerbated as Sins/Shadows because they don't have all the tools that Sins/Shadows do. But dropping 5k Smashes in a tank spec isn't something that should be happening.

What BW should have done is absolutely nuked DPS in a tank spec. Say, 50% DPS reduction when using a tank form/stance that's essential to the tank tree (e.g. Soresu). DPS and tanking should be mutually exclusive. This would completely eliminate the benefit of wearing DPS gear while tank spec'd. When they actually start wearing tank gear instead (and performing an objective denial role as tanks are intended to in PvP), this would have also given BW a better indication of how their respective tank specs are actually performing relative to each other in PvP. Then BW could address the lackluster DPS trees for Assassins/Shadows so that if they wanted to go DPS, it would be viable to do so.

As it stands, we have some half-assed nerfs that aren't going to ultimately do what they're intended to, which is to guide gearing to be more in line with the spec so that you don't have these hybrid issues that are so difficult to deal with and cause so many balance issues in PvP. Mark my words, Juggs/Guardians and Assassins/Shadows will be on the chopping block again, and sooner than later since the introduction of Rated WZs will quickly highlight some of these problems that the nerfs are failing to address.

Neoforcer's Avatar


Neoforcer
06.24.2012 , 10:12 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Sickboy_ View Post
the nerf addressed the survivability issue, not the damage issue. I think the damage issue can be corrected by making the assassin dps set bonuses specific to deception and madness trees and completely worthless to a darkness sin(such as buffing voltaic slash or something like that). That would prevent any assassin/shadow from using dps gear.
The nerf really does not do much tested on pts why as it not a pvp nerf it a pve nerf to bring sin/shadow in line with other tanks in pve.

since there nerfing brust in pvp with all the nerfs it will still be the same. You wont be able to nuke like you did pre 1.3 and will still die to the same sin/shadow all day long. Why you can nerf a class you cant nerf the skill of the player.

Sickboy_'s Avatar


Sickboy_
06.24.2012 , 10:18 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by Neoforcer View Post
The nerf really does not do much tested on pts why as it not a pvp nerf it a pve nerf to bring sin/shadow in line with other tanks in pve.

since there nerfing brust in pvp with all the nerfs it will still be the same. You wont be able to nuke like you did pre 1.3 and will still die to the same sin/shadow all day long. Why you can nerf a class you cant nerf the skill of the player.
Read the post above you for a more elaborate solution to the tanksin problem.

Neoforcer's Avatar


Neoforcer
06.24.2012 , 10:25 PM | #54
Quote:
Daitenzin: Does the team have any concerns about how the 1.3 changes will affect how Assassins/Shadows will perform as tanks compared to the other tanking options in an Operation situation?

Austin: No, not especially. I know a lot of players feel like this was a PvP fix that glossed over the idea of Operations survivability, but that just isn't the case. In reality, Shadow/Assassin tanks were slightly over-performing prior to Game Update 1.3, but some of that is obfuscated in the current climate of boss encounters. What some players have correctly identified as an issue is that some Operations bosses deal significantly more Force/tech damage than weapon damage, which favors tanks with high mitigation over those with high shield/avoidance.

Therefore, it'd be more accurate to say that I'm more concerned that we're currently overemphasizing armor and health pools (as the most valid channels of survivability) in Operations encounters. This may be the case because bosses aren't using enough weapon damage or because too many tank defenses only work against weapon damage. Not all channels of survivability can be balanced for every boss encounter, which is why tank survivability is measured against a norm, and why we're going to be pushing harder to hit that norm in the future - either through tweaks in boss damage or tweaks to the way shields work.
http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-june-22nd-2012
Sickboy
Read the above on the dev Q&A about sin shadow nerf and you will understand that you are gonna be very disapointed come 1.3 see link above

Sickboy_'s Avatar


Sickboy_
06.24.2012 , 10:30 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by Neoforcer View Post
http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-june-22nd-2012
Sickboy
Read the above on the dev Q&A about sin shadow nerf and you will understand that you are gonna be very disapointed come 1.3 see link above
Once again, read Mournbloods entire post. Wishing sin tanks will stay overpowered won't change anything, and tanksins are going to be on the chopping block in the near future. I say this as someone who has experience with MMOs in general. Broken specs don't stay broken for long due to player outcry and losing subs, even if the devs(the devs dont pvp btw) wont admit it.

Mournblood's Avatar


Mournblood
06.24.2012 , 10:36 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Neoforcer View Post
http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-june-22nd-2012
Sickboy
Read the above on the dev Q&A about sin shadow nerf and you will understand that you are gonna be very disapointed come 1.3 see link above
You are misinterpreting his meaning.

He's saying that players were worried about the nerfs unfairly or inordinately affecting Sin/Shadow tank performance in PvE, but that they were actually over-performing in PvE as well due to boss mechanic variables that favored their type of damage mitigation. What he did not say is that 1.3 is not intended as a PvP nerf, but is intended as a PvE nerf instead. It is a PvP nerf (though insufficient as I pointed out) that happens to also be a PvE nerf for different reasons.

You are right about one thing: people are going to be very disappointed come 1.3 when Tanksins are still facerolling 2-3 equally geared players all by themselves.

Neoforcer's Avatar


Neoforcer
06.24.2012 , 10:44 PM | #57
no offence but moureblood post will never happen. Why was operatives nerfed do you think it was because some one complained then they went look at all the complaints on operatives. No it was because they saw in there internal audit on balance that they were killing people way to fast. even before the crys of nerfs. What did the dev find out about sin/shadow with an audit they found we over preform in operations not pvp. What they also found was burst in pvp with dps classes and buffs were to high as well.

Sickboy_'s Avatar


Sickboy_
06.24.2012 , 10:48 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Neoforcer View Post
no offence but moureblood post will never happen. .
I'm afraid it will and you had better prepare yourself for when it happens. I predict sintanks using dps gear(not meant for them) will be nerfed within a month. This exact same thing happened in WoW actually, in season 8 during wrath of the lich king. Exact situation, exact response by the devs as described in mournbloods post.

Pizzel's Avatar


Pizzel
06.24.2012 , 11:05 PM | #59
I don't get what u can do? I mean the only thing would be to make combat technique do less damage. From what most people have complained about in here and in game is the damage. Not the survivability. So yea maybe combat technique should just lower damage more than 5 pct or something. Even now it takes a well geared WH Sin to do any damage and it is still way far behind even a subpar AC dps class for single target. A lot of the damage is AOE from Force breach and Slow time.

How are u gonna not allow people to wear the gear they have grinded for hundreds of hour to get. I mean come on. You could say the same thing about healers wearing mostly dps gear/mods instead of healing gear. Or about the vanguards wearing dps gear for their tank spec too. IDK slippery slope here.

There is other problems bigger than Tanksins IMO. Bursting Pyro Powertechs, mara's and op healers.

RogueNights's Avatar


RogueNights
06.24.2012 , 11:35 PM | #60
If you are actually complaining about the damage of 50% dps gear... idk what to say. The different assassin specs are hugely different be careful you're not confusing them, its not possible to get the 5k crits w/ any tank gear at all really.