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State of the Game: My Opinion (Please share your thoughts)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
State of the Game: My Opinion (Please share your thoughts)
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SocraticSteve's Avatar


SocraticSteve
06.08.2012 , 08:58 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Oxiiimoron View Post
I kinda see what you're saying... but that "hassle" is just another mark on your journey from leveling up your character, running FP's, then HM FP's, then SM Op's, then HM/NiM Op's. It's just like w/gear. Rakata/Campaign level gear is obtained from End Game Raiding & is gear you earn because you teamed together with 7/15 other people to down really difficult content and therefore earned the gear upgrades. So, because someone is upset they can't get the gear that I earned running NiM KP/HM Denova, does that mean we should therefore demand BW put a Vendor on the Fleet they can purchase similiar looking gear from? No, I don't think so. The Color Crystal kinda follows the same exact equation for me. You can find a Color Crystal you like w/out having to run FP's/Op's... but if you really want a pretty Magenta or Orange-Black crystal with better stats, you either have to run the appropriate content or have a lot of credits to purchase it off someone who has put in the time/effort to run the appropriate content. Does that make sense?
"The Color Crystal kinda follows the same exact equation for me." For me it doesn't follow the same equation at all.

See, I look at it as a point of customization. I don't know about you, but I'm an RPer. I have a story behind my characters. My characters have a personality, and their appearance is based on their personality. And for a Jedi/Sith, their lightsaber color is a big part of their appearance. Now, if I really want my character to have a certain color lightsaber, then that's the color I want him to have. I mean if I want my guy to have a purple lightsaber, I'd be willing to use a crystal with 0 stat bonuses if it was the only way to get the color I wanted. I don't see it as a matter of obtaining the epic loot, I see it as having my character look the way I want him to. But as it is, the only people I have seen with a purple lightsaber bought the crystal from that special vendor before 1.2 came out. I have no idea how to find them now.

Armor is a whole different matter. As you level up you should gain more and more options to use, but then you can pick from those options to express your character's personality. But when there are only a few different hues for the lightsaber color, those options should be easily available to you. As a quick note though, I'm ok with the black core crystals or white crystals being harder to obtain as those are kind of a more unique thing.

Quote:
Oh there are so many different websites out there! You can obviously read the SWTOR website... but then there's http://www.torspy.com/, http://torwars.com/, http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/, http://www.askmrrobot.com/, http://dulfy.net/, etc. I'm sure there are other websites I have yet to stumble upon (or ones I've been on and just haven't bookmarked lol). I use Google frequently when I can't find something on websites I already have bookmarked, and will talk with fellow Guild members, friends on my Fleet, or post on other websites if I'm really stumped. When I started running End Game content on SWTOR, we were never given an "End Game Raiding" guide. Myself, along with 7 others, learned as we went. We read up/watched Youtube videos on boss mechanics from those who had done all the testing on the PTS. We wiped, and we went back in and kept at it until we downed 'em. I don't think it would make the game any more fun if BW gave us this "Raiding Guide for Dummy's" and told us exactly what we needed to do for every single boss fight (I'm not being condescending, I'm just using that as an example... there's a "for Dummy's" book out there for everything!). You just have to keep trying until you win the game! And then you get pretty purple gears, and prestigious titles for your efforts.
I don't think you understand my problem here. I'm not asking for a guide on how to beat the individual Ops or Flashpoints. I'm asking that the game explain how Ops work and how the end-game gear system works. See, I feel like you, and the devs, are assuming that everyone has been a veteran WoW player for years. You're assuming that everyone knows what a raid is and how they work. I'm still a little unclear on the details. For example I'm not sure what that whole "Lockouts" page on the Mission menu even means. And why is it that you can join a raid that is half-way done? I find that odd. You see, I'm not familiar with the whole idea of raids.

You and the devs are also assuming that the players have experience with the type of end-game system that is in place, which I don't. So, if I understand right, the way they expect you to play is this: do Hardmode Flashpoints until you get all the Tionese gear, then stop doing HM FPs and do story mode Ops until you get all the Columi gear, then stop doing storymode Ops and do Hardmode Ops until you get all the Rakata gear. Then I'm still not sure where the Campaign gear fits in.

This system seems odd to me. Why am I being so strictly directed to play the content a certain way? I mean once I hit lvl 50 and finished my class story, I'd rather have my options be open to me, and play the content how I want. (Do Ops when I can find a big enough team, if I can't maybe find a smaller team and do a HM FP. If the server is kind of dead and it's late at night, maybe solo and do some of the repeatable Daily missions or stuff.) But so you're telling me that I'm not supposed to do that? Why not? And why was I never told this? Why was I just expected to know what order to play the end-game content in? And why is there an order at all? Do you see what I'm saying?

I never played WoW... please don't assume that I did and that I already know all this stuff.

Quote:
Ahh, ok I see what you mean there. Well, you choose to be right in the middle, so therefore you choose to not be able to purchase or use an item that is available for Dark V or Light V only. Maybe someday they'll consider this and be creative with those who choose to "meet in the middle". Unfortunately, there focus needs to be on current in-game issues before they start with a lot of the "little" things that can be fixed or altered.
See, that's not a "little" thing to me. To me that is a MAJOR flaw in the game's philosophy. Like I said above, I'm an RPer. My character has a personality, and his alignment is a reaction to his personality. It's not like I CHOSE and said "ok, this character will have an alignment of Dark 3." No, the actions I had him make were based on his personality, and whatever his alignment came out to be was a result of how the game system saw those actions. Do you see what I mean? To me, my character's alignment isn't just like some experience bar where I try to get as many dark side or light side points as I can. I didn't CHOOSE to have an alignment in the middle, I played my character the way I wanted to and AS A RESULT his alignment ended up somewhere in the middle. (I think he's Dark 3 at the moment.)

Kunda's Avatar


Kunda
06.17.2012 , 11:15 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by SocraticSteve View Post
30% doesn't seem like enough. That's still at least 70k per item, which is at least 350k to change your head, gloves, boots, upper body, and lower body. I don't see why there needs to be a cost at all. It's preventing me from being able to change my clothes whenever I want. I don't understand the reasoning.
On this point, and the other you mentioned regarding Legacy costs, there are virtually no money sinks in this game. I know you mentioned in your OP that you've been fifty for a couple of months now and just recently hit one million credits, but I wager a lot of the population is sitting on at least five times that. Money sinks are important in my opinion, otherwise your economy is pretty much useless.

I would be curious to know what you've been spending your credits on?

Koyi_Aldira's Avatar


Koyi_Aldira
06.17.2012 , 11:55 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by flyersfan View Post
As I understand it, MMO players ruined it. Instead of having fun, they focused on farming and simply completing the daily missions by working with the other faction's players to set up massive slaughters for daily kills. They would line up in big circles, die, come back, and kill the other faction's players after they lined up.
This is exactly what happened.
Smuggling slaves to safety, one Twi`Lek at a time!
█PEW█ █PEW█ █PEW█

Tsillah's Avatar


Tsillah
06.18.2012 , 03:09 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Koyi_Aldira View Post
This is exactly what happened.
In the end it's nothing short of naive to think that people will behave in an online community. Any game developer should know that when they allow something, players will do it. Perhaps not all, but enough to make it the new norm.

In fact I believe BW made it worse by not giving enough customisation options from the beginning. I completely agree with the OP on that point.

The added insult to the PvE community that you can craft orange gear with endgame look that you can only wear if you have a high PvP rank and not even give craftable boots and gloves to PvE just was a really bad decision.

Aion had a better idea where dying in PvP actually costs you PvP points. Now this game sucked on many levels but that small part of it was a good idea...their calculations of how many points you lost was ridiculous but it will stop people lining up to kill each other if you actually lose points because of it.

All in all they did some funny things. I really do like the game and that's possibly because I just love SW in general, but there are a few points that really could use improvement as the OP mentioned.
Et In Gehenna Vixi...

Sanxxx's Avatar


Sanxxx
06.18.2012 , 03:15 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by flyersfan View Post
As I understand it, MMO players ruined it. Instead of having fun, they focused on farming and simply completing the daily missions by working with the other faction's players to set up massive slaughters for daily kills. They would line up in big circles, die, come back, and kill the other faction's players after they lined up.
Poor implementation = poor results

SocraticSteve's Avatar


SocraticSteve
06.18.2012 , 08:38 AM | #26
Thanks for the input everyone.

In regards to the Ilum PvP, yeah if the quests were based on player kills and there was no reason not to die... exploitation is obvious. It's hard to believe that surprised anyone. Players will maximize the reward for as little effort however they can.

Open-world PvP needs to be like the warzones, just on a larger scale. Create control stations that each faction has to take control of, award pts. for maintaining control of those stations, increase the rate you gain pts. based on the number of stations your faction controls. This way both factions have a reason to take control and keep control of these stations. Wanna add some fun? Add a turret or two (like the kind you find in Colicoid Wargames) at each of the control points which can only be manned by members of the faction that control that station. Then give bonus pts. for accomplishments similar to the warzone medals. Maybe also have some kind of pts. modifier based on the number of players in the area. That way if there's just one person they can't just sit there and farm points.



Quote: Originally Posted by Kunda View Post
On this point, and the other you mentioned regarding Legacy costs, there are virtually no money sinks in this game. I know you mentioned in your OP that you've been fifty for a couple of months now and just recently hit one million credits, but I wager a lot of the population is sitting on at least five times that. Money sinks are important in my opinion, otherwise your economy is pretty much useless.

I would be curious to know what you've been spending your credits on?
No money sinks? There's repair costs, crew missions, GTN fees, the speeder licenses, the speeders themselves, the cost of skills, respecs (if you need them), and then the insane costs to unslot mods.

Honestly I'm not sure what I did wrong or what I'm doing wrong when it comes to credits, but I've always seemed to have less then most people. I don't know, too many Underworld Trading missions? How would I even gauge that? That's the thing, if I'm doing too many of them, how am I suppose to tell?

CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
06.18.2012 , 09:41 AM | #27
Good post.

I'll add a few notes on some of the issues:

Customization:
- Overall, I'd give it a 2 on a scale of 1-10. For Jedi, a 1 one would be generous. You can look like Obi-Wan Kenobi... or if you save all your pennies and work really hard, you can look like.... Obi Wan Kenobi.
- I'd give the quality of the artwork an 8. The problem is that we have very good artwork of very bland and repetitive designs.

Crafting (Synthweaving and Armormech specifically):
- Why are purple resources so hard to find? Even blue and white resources sell for more than the items that they are used to make.
- Many high level items look exactly like low level ones. There are often (always?) generic vendor trash items that look exactly the same as what you can craft.
- Crafters should be able to make gear comparable to the best gear in the game, and be able to make looks that can't be purchased. This should have been rule #1.

Social Points:
- A completely fubar system. Very high numbers are required to reach ranks above 1, yet most "group" content gives a handful of points, sometimes literally none at all. The fact that Esselles/BT farming is the only moderately reliable way to get social points should have set alarm bells ringing in developer meetings.

SocraticSteve's Avatar


SocraticSteve
06.18.2012 , 10:48 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
Crafting (Synthweaving and Armormech specifically):
- Why are purple resources so hard to find? Even blue and white resources sell for more than the items that they are used to make.
You noticed that too huh? It seems like if you buy the crafting materials you need to craft an item off the GTN, it will cost you more then the item will sell for. This almost forces you to make an alt in order to supply your crafter with the materials you need. And considering the time and work necessary to level another character, it makes for quite a hassle.

Quote:
- Crafters should be able to make gear comparable to the best gear in the game, and be able to make looks that can't be purchased. This should have been rule #1.
Well, I'm not sure crafters should be able to make gear with stats equal to the highest gear, because then there would be no reason to try to earn the top-end gear. But crafters should definitely be able to make gear that can't be found anywhere else, especially appearance-wise, and the gear you make should get you to the point that you are ready to start earning that top-tier gear.

Quote:
Social Points:
- A completely fubar system. Very high numbers are required to reach ranks above 1, yet most "group" content gives a handful of points, sometimes literally none at all. The fact that Esselles/BT farming is the only moderately reliable way to get social points should have set alarm bells ringing in developer meetings.
Exactly. I've done a couple FPs where I didn't earn a single Social Pt. because there was no conversations. I think Hammerstation and Cademimu. And I don't get why you get double points when you get the lucky conversation roll. Essentially, you're being rewarded for something you have no control over. Like I said before, I'm not sure what the goal of this system was, but I know it isn't working.

CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
06.18.2012 , 02:35 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Kunda View Post
On this point, and the other you mentioned regarding Legacy costs, there are virtually no money sinks in this game. I know you mentioned in your OP that you've been fifty for a couple of months now and just recently hit one million credits, but I wager a lot of the population is sitting on at least five times that. Money sinks are important in my opinion, otherwise your economy is pretty much useless.

I would be curious to know what you've been spending your credits on?
Some of the crafting resource missions are very expensive when you consider the cost of the mission vs. the odds of you getting that rare resource you are looking for. In the 20's you could easily spend 10's of thousands of credits without getting a single rare.

Fayme's Avatar


Fayme
06.18.2012 , 02:56 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by SocraticSteve View Post
The end-game system needs to be simplified and/or explained to the player. I mean, as a player, I shouldn't HAVE to go on the net to learn how to play the game. I'm still not positive on how everything works. So I need Tionese Crystals and Tionese Comms to get Tionese gear. And I get those from completing Hardmode FPs. Why is there two different Tionese resources exactly? I get Columi Comms from completing Ops, but I can also earn trade-in items that will give me a whole piece of Columi gear. I don't know how you get Rakata gear, I'm guessing from Hardmode Ops? And then Black Hole gear has better stats then my Columi gear but doesn't provide me with the Set Bonus for the Rakata Force-Master gear. So, I dunno. Skip the Black Hole gear? But then what am I suppose to do with all the Black Hole Comms I earned? Campaign gear gives me the bonus and has better stats, but I have no idea how you get Campaign gear. And then there are all the Daily Comms I've been working on earning. Let's see the mods are equal to Tionese gear, so wait I should have gotten those before earning the Tionese gear? Dang it! And then there are earpieces and implants which are better then the Columi ones, but can also be earned from the Rakata gear vendor, so... um, ok. Then there are relics which I don't think can be earned elsewhere. So use the daily Comms on the relics and the earpieces/implants, or just use them on the relics and get the earpiece/implant some other way? So, once I get all my gear up to Tionese level there's no reason to do HM FPs anymore? Ok, quick question... WHAT THE **** IS GOING ON?!?!
This paragraph made me laugh so hard, because I thought the same exact thing when I was gearing up (minus the black hole stuff as it was before that was added). I don't know who they assigned to do the loot system for PVE, but yeah it's confusing as hell. At least the drops in flashpoints/operations for classes that weren't in party aren't an issue anymore.
SWTOR PvP = nerf teams of stunlocking operatives to create teams of stunlocking [insert any AC here]