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What was the logic behind choosing which crew skills can craft augment kits?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
What was the logic behind choosing which crew skills can craft augment kits?

GnatB's Avatar


GnatB
06.15.2012 , 10:24 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Feoktist View Post
Artificers, cybertechs and biochems have a HUGE source of revenue from 61 mods / enhancements / ears. I sold enhancements and mods for like 20kk net. And now they give a chance to other crafters to earn some. I see this a fair choice.
UPD: Aye forgot about the relics the artificers can craft, too. That's a nice offer to people hating dailies.
Only if they are actually group content players. If they are "pure" crafters they are left in the cold. Which (IMO) is extremely bad design. Crafting, PvE, (and PvP) should be relatively independant. While you may not be the best PvE (or PvP) without obtaining something from a crafter, you shouldn't actually have to BE a crafter to be the best. Reverse should be true for crafting. To be the best crafter, you shouldn't HAVE to be doing PvE or PvP. Just be able to obtain from those who are. The high end gear you need to RE to learn the high end crafting stuff is all BoP though (and dropped from high end group PvE content, or bought with commendations that only come from high end group PvE content)... which breaks the paradigm.

-Azimov-'s Avatar


-Azimov-
06.15.2012 , 11:02 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by murshawursha View Post
So I'm all for allowing the addition of augment slots to any item, but I'm not really clear on why Armormech, Armstech, and Synthweaving were chosen as the only crafting skills able to make augment kits. On the surface it seems like the goal was to enhance the viability of crafting skills at endgame (and in fairness, for those three, it does), but in reality, it screws over Artifice, Biochem, and Cybertech.
This is why.
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidHunt View Post
For Game Update 1.3, augment kit creation is limited to the classes that can currently make augments. This is necessary for the introduction of the system; it allows us to distribute the components at a steady rate, because each augmentable item you RE results in a portion of the augment slot. The items created by the other crew skills don't fit in with this progression as cleanly - if we decide to allow Artifice or Cybertech to acquire the kits through their commonly created items, under our current systems they would produce kits substantially faster than the other skills. It is safer to open augment kits to a limited set of crew skills.

Augment tables are an important part of the plan for crafting and items in general, and we're committed to continually integrating re-evaluating the feature and integrating it into future. Our intent is to provide a system that utilizes crafting to give all gear the same statistical potential while we monitor economic data and gather player feedback to determine what other changes or additions to make. Adding augment kits to additional crew skills is on the list of possibilities, but it is by no means guaranteed. We're working on other updates to how some of the systems work - both internally and externally - that may improve the viability of including augment kits in other skills without creating a substantial imbalance. Along with the economic data and feedback, that will determine whether augment kits expand to other crew skills.

Long term, we have economic plans that involve continually refreshing crew skills with new content. Since we are early in those stages, every time we make an update it will make the most recently changed crew skills seem superior. If we included major additions for every crew skill each update at our current pace, it would likely create a result that is incomplete and devalues the system as a whole. As each crew skill gets a wider range of viable items/services, the impact of an individual addition should decrease, and we'll see a smoother cadence between the crew skills.

Anakis's Avatar


Anakis
06.15.2012 , 12:01 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by hyuplee View Post
Artificers? You still got crystals and relic to craft.

Cybertech's got literally nothing.

nothing that they can sell.
What about mods, armoring and ear pieces? I can never find enough mods/armoring on the GTN. Have you tried making some Blues/Purples and sell em? If not successful, try on your heavily populated server after the transfers... I'm sure they will sell unless you're asking an unreasonable price.
--- The Harbinger ---
Esri, Vezpa, Kaycey

Feoktist's Avatar


Feoktist
06.16.2012 , 03:09 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by GnatB View Post
Crafting, PvE, (and PvP) should be relatively independant.
Relatively is a nice word. This will never be the case, and people realize that and exploit it all the way. Rakata medpacs, stimpacks, adrenals, rings the bell? In 1.2 my character cannot wear augmented boots and gauntlets, because I'm only PvE-ing and crafting. Not-PvP-ing limits my PvE capabilities. So if you're only PvP-ing and crafting, this should limit your capabilities as a crafter. Everything is intertwined, always.
Nightmare Lands EX-Star Wolves [RU] (not for hire)
Feoktist (Jedi Shadow)
Brenda (Scoundrel)

Livedtomato's Avatar


Livedtomato
06.17.2012 , 03:55 PM | #15
Guys guys, this is just to much thinking for them to do, you're asking them to think of the future consequences of their actions before they patch? That's almost blasphemy.

Rischardo's Avatar


Rischardo
06.17.2012 , 05:56 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Feoktist View Post
Artificers, cybertechs and biochems have a HUGE source of revenue from 61 mods / enhancements / ears. I sold enhancements and mods for like 20kk net. And now they give a chance to other crafters to earn some. I see this a fair choice.
UPD: Aye forgot about the relics the artificers can craft, too. That's a nice offer to people hating dailies.
In order to learn those 61 mods/enhancements, you have to either 1. Be satisfied with your gear to the point that Blackhole/Campaign is no longer an upgrade for you or 2. Just want to make money and accept that you won't have end game gear for awhile.

Second, it's not even a definite chance that you'll learn the 61 mod/enhancement. Meanwhile, arms/armor/synth are guaranteed to learn their augment kits. They can easily buy the recipes for the augment 22s. And the process of learning the augments don't require expensive Blackhole comms/campaign shells; you can easily get the mats to make the augments that need to be REed.

Third, augmentation kits are useful for any player, regardless of class. At least for 61 mods, they are advanced class specific.

So let's summarize "end game" crafting:
cybertech/artifice process

Spoiler


Cybertech/Artifice Limitations
Spoiler


Arms/armor/synth process
Augments
Spoiler


Augmentation Kits
Spoiler


Arms/armor/synth Limitations
Spoiler


Arms/armor/synth Benefits
Spoiler


I'm not saying that 61 mods/enhancements should be easy to get...they should be rare. But that doesn't change the fact that Cybertechs/Artifice have almost no "easily attainable" and mass marketable items to sell to the population.

I understand that Bioware wanted to limit the amount of available augmentation kits, but the fact is that they chose the wrong professions to make them. I don't see how it's balanced that the same professions that can make the augmentation kits are also the ones that make the very augments that go in them. Bioware could have achieved the goal of limiting available augmentation kits by giving the recipe to the professions unable to make the individual augments (cybertech/artifice/biochem) and ended up with a better balance.

Feoktist's Avatar


Feoktist
06.17.2012 , 10:50 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Rischardo View Post
1. Grind blackhole comms and raid in order to get the mods/enhancements, potentially foregoing your own gear for a chance to make the mod/enhance.
Well sorry but all guys from our ops managed to learn 2+ schematics they tried. You don't realize it's a domino effect: once you learn one schematic you can actually craft it, put in your gear, then try to RE other. And once your kinmates do the same you can barter it. And no, your choice of mods is not limited to your class, obviously you never tried to change any columi pieces for your companion. I gained 2 schematics on my 15 lvl cybertech commando, wow how did I do that?? Hell, one of our kinmates even learned 2 Campaign relic schematics over the MONTHS since the update 1.2. The only problem is lack of access to end-game PvE-content, but you can't blame developers that you only play PvP. And thank you for making this sound over-complicated, now less people will try to learn the schematics, we will have less competition and continue enjoying 100% margins.
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Feoktist (Jedi Shadow)
Brenda (Scoundrel)

Rischardo's Avatar


Rischardo
06.18.2012 , 03:53 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Feoktist View Post
Well sorry but all guys from our ops managed to learn 2+ schematics they tried. You don't realize it's a domino effect: once you learn one schematic you can actually craft it, put in your gear, then try to RE other. And once your kinmates do the same you can barter it. And no, your choice of mods is not limited to your class, obviously you never tried to change any columi pieces for your companion. I gained 2 schematics on my 15 lvl cybertech commando, wow how did I do that?? Hell, one of our kinmates even learned 2 Campaign relic schematics over the MONTHS since the update 1.2. The only problem is lack of access to end-game PvE-content, but you can't blame developers that you only play PvP. And thank you for making this sound over-complicated, now less people will try to learn the schematics, we will have less competition and continue enjoying 100% margins.
Wow This wall of text is rife with arrogant, elitist remarks and the typical ignorant assumptions that go along with it... I feel that I shouldn't even dignify it with a response.

Nevertheless, I never said that you couldn't profit from 61 mods/enhancements; obviously you can and there is a market for it. But when compared to arms/armor/synth, these items cannot be produced in nearly the same quantities as augment 22s and in 1.3, augment kits. 61 mods/enhancements demand high premiums that are paid out only to a select few crafters.

Both of my characters have nearly all the 61 mods/enhancements I can get from BH comms, so despite your blanket assumptions, I am not some PvE noob and will hopefully be making some of these mods myself in the near future (if I happen to be as lucky as your raiders when I RE).

I could go on and on and point out every area where you misread/misunderstood me, but I'd probably be wasting my time. The main thing for you to understand is that yes, money can be made from 61 mods/enhancements, but it is not nearly as accessible as augments and thus it is not comparable to the money making ability of augments. The reason you can make money now, despite the smaller market, is because it is difficult to obtain 61 mod schematics and the rarity of the mod/enhancement is what allows you to charge high prices. As more raiders start REing bc they have nothing better to do, kiss your profits good bye.

Augments and augment kits, on the other hand, are profitable despite the high supply because of the high demand. Every profession can be profitable; Bioware just made it a lot easier for some than for others.

Feoktist's Avatar


Feoktist
06.18.2012 , 11:36 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Rischardo View Post
This wall of text is...
Lol it is ME who posts walls of texts? And sorry, yes, MMORPG is all about elitism from a certain point of view - top gear, top guilds, top achievements, no?
Quote: Originally Posted by Rischardo View Post
The main thing for you to understand is that yes, money can be made from 61 mods/enhancements, but it is not nearly as accessible as augments...
Sorry I have to confess. I learned http://www.torhead.com/schematic/gLI...enhancement-26, http://www.torhead.com/schematic/fJ0...enhancement-26, http://www.torhead.com/schematic/58r...ptitude-mod-26 and http://www.torhead.com/schematic/hjl...d-deft-mod-26b because I was so bored I had nothing better to do. And I didn't know I could make money with it, wow, after selling about 40 of them for 1kk each.

Of course it's not nearly as accessible, but it's finally made artificers and cybertechs worth their while. And I could go on and on about practical aspects of it, but I don't post walls of text usually.
Nightmare Lands EX-Star Wolves [RU] (not for hire)
Feoktist (Jedi Shadow)
Brenda (Scoundrel)

GnatB's Avatar


GnatB
06.18.2012 , 12:31 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Feoktist View Post
Relatively is a nice word. This will never be the case, and people realize that and exploit it all the way. Rakata medpacs, stimpacks, adrenals, rings the bell? In 1.2 my character cannot wear augmented boots and gauntlets, because I'm only PvE-ing and crafting. Not-PvP-ing limits my PvE capabilities. So if you're only PvP-ing and crafting, this should limit your capabilities as a crafter. Everything is intertwined, always.
Well, they should be economically intertwined, yes. But that's pretty much it. Bioware is (slowly) removing the rakata advantages. The boots/gauntlet issue is already being rectified as well. Just because they've made mistakes doesn't mean those mistakes shouldn't be fixed.