Vilgilance Guardian DPS Very Weak

So let me get this straight you're telling me that Guardians routinely out DPS Sentinels, sorry, but assuming they have equivalent gear that isn't exactly plausible. Oh it doesn't take a math genius to figure out the numbers are rather faulty too.

1. Difference between armor from medium to heavy doesn't affect damage output.
2. Sentinels are wielding two sabers so attacks like master strike are hitting with 2 sabers instead of one.

We have 3 possible explanations:
1. Guardian is spamming force sweep while sentinel is not
2. There is a serious difference in gear
3. The sentinels are incompetitent idiots

Again this claim that Guardians are OPed and need to be nerfed, which is precisely what you are essentially saying, is more than a little laughable. The numbers just quite frankly aren't there for what you're suggesting.

Assuming there is not a difference in gear and they are competitent, that leaves the spamming of Force Sweep, which basically means you're getting artificially high numbers because it's adding things from the area attacks (essentially saying that you're multiplying the real damage Force Sweep is dishing out to a particular target by up to 5x what it is actually doing). I will further add that all the area effect attack buffs are in the Focus Tree, so those numbers would spike even higher as a result.

Btw, even though generators, shields, etc. add stats to the damage you dish out with a single lightsaber, offhand sabers add damage values for Sentinels, and unlike our generators, shield generators, etc. off-hand sabers do their own direct damage. Which leads back to the statement that the Guardian's damage numbers are being propped up by Force Sweep, and the guardian really can't out DPS a Sentinel cause if the Sentinel had been similarly spamming that attack, the Sentinel would outpace the Guardian in question.

So it looks like your Damage numbers are more than a little inflated.

I don't think you understand how DPS works... One move isn't going to inflate numbers that significantly on ANY boss fight (in fact, the only EC boss where force smash hits more than one target is on Kephess for a single phase where everyone in your group should be AoEing anyway). In any case, kf you think DPS on trash mobs is relevant, then you're delusional.

No one has said this. People have simply said that Guardian/Juggernaut DPS is competitive and that any discrepancy you're noticing is likely due to your own gear, rotation or understanding of fights. The fact that you continue to argue this point while asserting that *your* rotations are superior, despite the fact that ample evidence to the contrary has been presented, is asinine and insulting.

Go reroll if you really think that the class is weak, we don't need egotistical players like you to make the class look bad to potential prospective players.

Dear Garfield,

Please have a look at the link this previous poster has provided. To me, it seems that Guardian dps seems just fine. Yes, perhaps the sentinel could have played as watchman, which may have increased his dps, and perhaps he could have played better: perhaps all the other dps could have. However, I don't think pulling 1983.4 dps is low or uncompetitive on Karagga, by any means at all.


Yours faithfully,

A raiding DPS Vigilance Guardian.

That sentinal IS watchman spec.

Ah you're right! This is what happens when you post before going to bed -.-

Yeah I did have a look, since you guys are claiming master strike is a super effective attack, and apparently it was the one most used by the Guardian and it looks as though the guardian in question was built around using master strike, quite a lot. Now if you look at the Sentinel, whom came in second on the totals they used master strike for 12.1% of their damage and a total of 6 times. They also used slash (isn't that the throwback focus dump skill we get when we are Jedi Knights) for 14.5% of their damage output and they used that 30 times. Take a look at the Guardian whom got 21.1% of their damage from master strike and used it a total of 15 times. Guardian's next highest skill as far as damage totals was Sundering Strike (which is understandable considering it is an armor debuff and an attack), they got 12.5% of their total damage output from that and used that particular skill 46 times.

The log suggests that master strike deals out more damage than overhead strike, something my own observations concur with.

I also noticed the logs are seperating the damage done by the burn effects from plasma brand away from the initial attack... If I'm reading the numbers correctly this would mean that Plasma brand actually did 15.2% of this Guardian's total damage once you factor the burn damage into the equation this attack was used 23 times.

I've never disputed that master strike from start to finish dishes out more damage than a single plasma brand, considering master strike is basically 3 seperate attacks rolled into 1. What I have said, is that I can get multiple attacks into the same window that it takes for master strike to operate. So in what I am bringing up is the time it takes for master strike to work vs. the number of attacks I can bring into play in the same window. Remember unlike Master Strike, Plasma Brand's DoT is working for 12 seconds unless a healer removes the effect regardless of you moving around or using other attacks. That means in the window that DoT is active, I'm lobbing several different attacks into the mix (including master strike I might add), so dishing out damage on top of the active DoT. I treat it as adding the DoT damage to every other attack I'm dishing out.

Getting back to the logs, I considered it rather interesting that Sentinel used slash 30x, seriously I actually have slash off of my hot keys in favor of other attacks such as overhead strike, plasma brand, blade storm, master strike, dispatch, etc. While slash does damage, it isn't the biggest damage dealer in a Jedi Knight's arsenal. Now I know with shien, Guardians have an easier time with focus to some extent, but still they have to have a better skill in their arsenal than that...

Btw, I also had a look at the accuracy numbers and saw why the Sentinel got clobbered by the guardian... The guardian had 100% accuracy, while the Sentinel's 3 highest damage skill according to the total missed 21.7% of the time, the second highest in their damage output missed 16.7% of the time, in fact there are 3 instances where master strike missed. While the total number of avoids as a percentage is only 9.5%, when you stop look at the fact that the sentinel missed their target 54 times, with 23 of those hits being in the top 4 as far as damage outputs. It isn't exactly surprising that the guardian outperformed the Sentinel (whose biggest damage dealer is apparently a burning effect and not an actual attack).

Kinda easy to get better damage numbers when they person you are comparing it to can just barely hit the broadside of a barn, and at point blank range no less...

Marauders get more benefit out of using vicious slash (via berserk and other talents/abilities that make it free and hit in an AoE) In addition, misses are natural for DW DPS.

Your analysis is bad and you should feel bad...

Question for Dracosz and Jubei's friend, what sort of totals do you guys have for Power/Crit/Surge on your Guardian/Juggernauts?

I can put up 1250-1300 DPS pretty routinely on the dummy, but not higher than that, I'm assuming I should probably drop some Surge (at around 300) in favor of more Crit or Power (400 or so in both). My gear is basically all Rakata. Also this is Vigilance, though I do raid in my PvP spec which might cost me a tad (no Narrowed Focus or Insight), and I also go without the 4 piece set bonus (too vain, I can't help it).

Thanks for the helpful answers, I'm trying to ignore Garfield, I wish he'd go away.

35% crit before or after smuggler buff?

Also, what rotation do you use during the Dispatch phase?

After smuggler buff is ideal, those are the numbers you want to be around, not set in stone.

As for a rotation, pretty much I use it on cooldown, so long as force rush is up. since in most PVE encounters where dispatch is in place, you want to do as much damage as possible.

basically it becomes
sunder strike -> plasma brand -> dispatch -> sunder strike -> master strike -> sunder strike -> overhead slash -> dispatch

or something like that.