I have never run a 16-man hard mode. I ran a few 16 normal prior to 1.2, but not since. My guild has had attendance issues since 1.2 and we are only doing 8HM.

 

If you are telling me BH is needed in 16 hard to keep the tanks alive because 4xSorc or 4xOp or 2xSorc + 2xOp can't do it, that is great news. This is the first that I have heard of it. I guess I should start applying to guilds doing 16HM since I am indispensable.

yup well they probably can heal if ALL 4 heal the tank but that would be a dumb option if you could boil it down to have 1 or 2 on it and the other 2 healing the group would be a much wiser choice.

Geeze. Can we stop the squabbling, and just decide on the facts?

Alright. After knocking around a while with all three healing classes, it's VERY obvious what Bioware was going for with the 1.2 update and all the healing styles, though they may have missed the mark a little.

Sages/Sorcerers[/i]

You are there to take care of the general duty stuff. Yes. You have the slowest heals imaginable. REALLY slow. No turtles are going to win any races - they're going to end up in some turtle soup, hopefully with a spring onion or two - maybe a few prawns. Know what that means? Think ahead. If you can see that your target could need a heal in a few seconds, time your heals to hit'em at that moment.

You also have the largest resource pool, at the price of being unable to actually get it back without some serious work. That does not mean SPAM-HEAL-MODE-ACTIVATE! - Sit down, you tool. It means you're better at keeping THE GROUP alive. One might be lead to believe otherwise, but see the people trying to run away from stuff? They're your babies. Take care of them. The main tanks aren't actually your function, though you will be healing them of course.

Operatives/Scoundrels

You are probably the most interesting ones to look at. The heals may be the weakest, sure, but by God, the speed, the resource management - now, here's a mighty fine healer - at least, on one target. Be careful to keep up Pugnacity/Stim Boost constantly, try to keep your energy above 50% (I realise the maximum recharge threshold is 60% - but sometimes, you just gotta' get that heal out), top-up your MAIN TARGET's HoT up, and occasionally toss out a hit here and there (Naturally, look around for the other members of the group that may or may not require some medical assistance) - and you should be fine! Don't forget - you have a free heal to throw out here and there, too! In fact, it's excellent for building up your resources if you've gone a little too far down!

Tell me that's a TL;DR, and I'll hit you over the head. They may well be the best sustainable healers, but only in skilled hands. The argument may be well made that Operatives/Scoundrels are utility healers more than they are main healers, and visa-versa. It really depends on style, here. As an Operative/Scoundrel, I could keep ~2 people healed comfortably with my HoT's up on them both (Energy always above 50% - though there are points where Adrenaline Probe/Cool Head have to be used to keep up. Don't worry. That's fine. Just try not to rely on either of them for your management). Also, as you are the healer that can reacquire their resource the easiest - with lightning quick heals, to boot! - guess what that means? You're the SPAM-MODE-ACTIVATE! one. Though I'd make sure everyone knows the score, and you're not healing them for a few seconds while you're regenerating if they're being idiots. That machismo doesn't fly with you. You've got your main tank, and maybe if you're up to the headache, an off-tanker (Or other primary target). Everybody else comes second. You may even need to call in a back-up healer to take care of things while you're recharging.

Mercenary/Commando

Ah, I actually loved playing them. Want to be a healer that nobody expects too much of, though everyone knows your the best? Here's your place! Strongest heals. No, really. If you don't outclass everybody else's heals by far, you're doing something wrong. The armour. Heck, where other heals kite, you can comfortably sit there until the tank wakes up enough to pull the aggro from you. The downside? You're spent pretty darn quickly. Not to rain on any parades here - but being the only healer in a group is severely ill-advised. Resource management? Hah! What's that? That stuff that garbologists do?

From my perspective, when I played one, I found that it was very irritating to try and pigeon-hole myself into being the full-time healer. It wasn't until I stopped and thought for a moment, "Well, wait a minute. My damage still kicks *** for a healer. Why don't I just try and burn down the crap with everyone else? - (Mr. Plinkett voice) Oohh. That works," that I realised where this class of healer was meant to be.

Throw a heal when it's needed. Yes, there are times where you'll have to spam - so make use of Reload/Vent Heat carefully - you should need to spam less than others with the amounts you heal. And hey. It's not that much better than a Sorcerer/Sage - but it is better enough. Use your resource wisely to heal, and get to know what your healing threshold is, but keep defaulting to being an off-DPS (Use as few attacks as possible - CC/Stuns to buy a few seconds if you need to regain your resources for a heal or two).

By the way. Your free heal? Kicks ***. Serious ***. Or would that be.. kisses...

Of course, that's what Bioware was going for. It's all.. pretty soundly there, with a few darts just on the line. Anybody can adapt and mould a style as they see fit - and it's actually a refreshing challenge to play a healer in SW:TOR. You can't be a mindless moron that spams your heal non-stop (Sorry Korean-MMO'ers - I know, I know. It's hard to adapt but we all do sometime. I did it ages ago when I got tired of wasting cash uselessly on Refreshers in Flying For Fun - you'll do it in The Old Republic, because people will kick you from the group if you don't. Ironically, the very reason you probably spam heal in the first place - tankers in other games giving you the boot if you didn't spam-heal them how they demanded).

Mercenary/Commando healing doesn't need any sort of resource altering - the healing itself needs a 10-15% buff on what it is currently. Probably couldn't hurt for just a tiny bit of Action Cost Reduction though, right?

Operative/Scoundrel healing could do with just a little less on the resource cost - main heal costing a quarter of my Energy bar by default? Eh? Let's cut that a little. This class is about skilfully using resource, or else. Okay. It's enough of a penalty that there isn't much of a panic button-heal - at least let the poor guys stand a chance of reliably healing during these trying times!

Sage/Sorcerer healers, typically of Force-using classes no matter what game, are already fine as they are. No. They don't need stronger healing. They don't need cost reduction. Nor cast-time shortening (Stack Alacrity if it's that important to you - which I'm sure all of the healers do!). They're balanced to what they need to be.

Let's just see if everybody else can be balanced to play their roles properly, eh?

Stack Alacrity if it's that important to you - which I'm sure all of the healers do!?

Good one. I laughed heartily.

The idea of different roles to me is fine.

Sorc/Sage is the AOE Raid healer

BG/CM is the burst Single Target/Tank healer

OM/SB is preventative HoT healer that kind of spans the gap between the other two.

 

There are 2 problems with this theory currently in the game.

1) BG/CM took a major nerf to their Burst and output.

2) The new content does not encourage a "tank healer" role

 

The result is that Sorc/Sage and OM/SB can effectively handle the "tank healing" duties and each excel at different fights based on the mechanics. There is no fights where Mercs excel.

As a Sorc specced for healing, I can tell you that our sole AoE heal has a cooldown on it that doesn't make me a very effective AoE healer. Raid healing, fine, but that is more due to HoTs and fast cast heals rather than AoE.

Good one. I laughed heartily.

Glad I could be of comedic service. <3.

Geeze. Can we stop the squabbling, and just decide on the facts?

Operatives/Scoundrels

You are probably the most interesting ones to look at. The heals may be the weakest, sure, but by God, the speed, the resource management - now, here's a mighty fine healer - at least, on one target. Be careful to keep up Pugnacity/Stim Boost constantly, try to keep your energy above 50% (I realise the maximum recharge threshold is 60% - but sometimes, you just gotta' get that heal out), top-up your MAIN TARGET's HoT up, and occasionally toss out a hit here and there (Naturally, look around for the other members of the group that may or may not require some medical assistance) - and you should be fine! Don't forget - you have a free heal to throw out here and there, too! In fact, it's excellent for building up your resources if you've gone a little too far down!

Tell me that's a TL;DR, and I'll hit you over the head. They may well be the best sustainable healers, but only in skilled hands. The argument may be well made that Operatives/Scoundrels are utility healers more than they are main healers, and visa-versa. It really depends on style, here. As an Operative/Scoundrel, I could keep ~2 people healed comfortably with my HoT's up on them both (Energy always above 50% - though there are points where Adrenaline Probe/Cool Head have to be used to keep up. Don't worry. That's fine. Just try not to rely on either of them for your management). Also, as you are the healer that can reacquire their resource the easiest - with lightning quick heals, to boot! - guess what that means? You're the SPAM-MODE-ACTIVATE! one. Though I'd make sure everyone knows the score, and you're not healing them for a few seconds while you're regenerating if they're being idiots. That machismo doesn't fly with you. You've got your main tank, and maybe if you're up to the headache, an off-tanker (Or other primary target). Everybody else comes second. You may even need to call in a back-up healer to take care of things while you're recharging.

Firstly I would like to say that as i have never played a CM/BG or a Sage/Sorc, I can in no way fully compare the balance of healing across the classes, however, as a main healer for my guild that has cleared all NiM content and 1/4 ECHM, I feel that I can make some statements about the state of Sawbones healing.

Firstly the above quote is in essence to my mindcorrect, since the 1.2 buff, we have gone from a class that needed to be played perfectly to compete in PVE raiding, to a class that is now to my mind one of the most fun and interesting healing classes I have ever played in a MMO.

However what I would say is that, from what I have seen, a lot of people on this topic have been syaing that we do not have very efficient burst heals, this to my mind is incorrect. I have no energy issues in pumping out an emergency UM followed by EM. In about 2.5-3secs I can put out a minimum of 5k heals, and if both crit I can go up to 9-10k, usually one crits and i get around a 7k heal, not something to be sniffed at. Yes you might say that a Trooper can pump his emergency heal to heal for more, but I can spam 2, possibly 3 rotations of UM and EM without severely hampering my energy rotation, especially if I have some stacks of UH saved up. Plus on its own, KP, is very useful itself in a burst heal situation, usually I heal for about 3.5k noncrit and 5.5-6k crit.

Another thing that I really enjoy about healing as a scoundrel is the amount of survivabilty and utility I have in PVE, for example defense screen on a 45sec cd is to my mind incredible and especially if u spec into the talent, the name eludes me, that increases the healing you take when its up. I find it incredably useful when im doing the puzzle on the 4th boss in KP NiM as it allows me to take 2 hit from pulse droids and then heal myself up to full much quicker than a sage/trooper. The fact that I can vanish mid fight is also incredibly useful as a way to either ress someone without wasting a combat ress or to drop aggro if u see your tank fail. Plus I bring two CC's to the raid if needed.

Tl;DR - Scoundrels/Ops have good burst heals if played well and bring a lot to a raid in the right hands.

Did they really change that much in 1.2? Or is it just different strokes for different folks, I wonder.

I stopped playing my PvE Sawbones well before 1.2 because I just found the game-play so dull. It seemed very repetitive and didn't look like really getting that much more interesting during the higher levels. Add on to that the frustrations with managing rolling HoTs given the interface issues... and I really just didn't fancy it.

Did 1.2 really change these issues for Sawbones?

X

Firstly I would like to say that as i have never played a CM/BG or a Sage/Sorc, I can in no way fully compare the balance of healing across the classes, however, as a main healer for my guild that has cleared all NiM content and 1/4 ECHM, I feel that I can make some statements about the state of Sawbones healing.

Oi. Here we go again.

Your lack of knowledge of any class other than your own shows, and I'll explain why shortly.

However what I would say is that, from what I have seen, a lot of people on this topic have been syaing that we do not have very efficient burst heals, this to my mind is incorrect. I have no energy issues in pumping out an emergency UM followed by EM. In about 2.5-3secs I can put out a minimum of 5k heals, and if both crit I can go up to 9-10k, usually one crits and i get around a 7k heal, not something to be sniffed at. Yes you might say that a Trooper can pump his emergency heal to heal for more, but I can spam 2, possibly 3 rotations of UM and EM without severely hampering my energy rotation, especially if I have some stacks of UH saved up.

Actually it's more likely that we'd say that isn't burst healing.

That's your sustainable, relatively energy neutral, healing rotation.

Plus on its own, KP, is very useful itself in a burst heal situation, usually I heal for about 3.5k noncrit and 5.5-6k crit.

You're getting less healing for a .5s faster heal that costs slightly less energy and a UH.

While less efficiency for faster output is practically the definition of burst, it doesn't change the fact that this option sucks compare to just using your .5s longer heal that gives you UH to boot.

Another thing that I really enjoy about healing as a scoundrel is the amount of survivabilty and utility I have in PVE, for example defense screen on a 45sec cd is to my mind incredible and especially if u spec into the talent, the name eludes me, that increases the healing you take when its up. I find it incredably useful when im doing the puzzle on the 4th boss in KP NiM as it allows me to take 2 hit from pulse droids and then heal myself up to full much quicker than a sage/trooper. The fact that I can vanish mid fight is also incredibly useful as a way to either ress someone without wasting a combat ress or to drop aggro if u see your tank fail. Plus I bring two CC's to the raid if needed.

Remember what I said in the beginning? Here comes the fun part.

You shot yourself in the foot with your first sentence here.

Another thing that I really enjoy about healing as a scoundrel is the amount of survivabilty and utility I have in PVE, for example defense screen on a 45sec cd is to my mind incredible and especially if u spec into the talent, the name eludes me, that increases the healing you take when its up.

If that's what you enjoy about scoundrel healing, you'd enjoy the other healers more despite their recent nerfs.

Defense screen is a joke of a cooldown, even with the increased healing talent, because all it takes is something to sneeze in your general direction and it's gone.

The fact that I can vanish mid fight is also incredibly useful as a way to either ress someone without wasting a combat ress or to drop aggro if u see your tank fail.

So, you have the best survivability in every situation where your group is already failing (and if you need 2 in-combat rezzes, they're failing hard). And that matters because?...

Sure it cuts repair bills, but that doesn't make it something to get excited over.

Plus I bring two CC's to the raid if needed.

Do you not realize other classes get CC too? As an added bonus, those other classes either have >10m range on their CC or the means to stay alive and do their job in melee range of the enemy.

Considering this and and the vanish-rez are the only things that could remotely be considered utility in your statement, I'm guessing you've already realized it's the extent of our utility. I'm here to tell you that not only does that utility suck, it sucks hard compared to every other class.

Tl;DR - Scoundrels/Ops have good burst heals if played well and bring a lot to a raid in the right hands.

If by "lot", you mean pure healing numbers, you're right, especially since the 1.2 nerfs to the other classes.

But don't fool yourself into thinking you bring anything more than that. You don't.

Did they really change that much in 1.2? Or is it just different strokes for different folks, I wonder.

 

I stopped playing my PvE Sawbones well before 1.2 because I just found the game-play so dull. It seemed very repetitive and didn't look like really getting that much more interesting during the higher levels. Add on to that the frustrations with managing rolling HoTs given the interface issues... and I really just didn't fancy it.

 

Did 1.2 really change these issues for Sawbones?

 

X

No, it didn't.

It's just a combination of rerolls from DPS/other healers and arguably being the best single target healer that colors people's judgement of the class.

None of the problems with the class changed. It just went from being a nightmare of a prostate exam to a "good" prostate exam, while the nearest competition went from being a blood pressure screening to a nightmare of a prostate exam with a free, all expense paid colonoscopy.

I really hope Sundren was trolling.

• GZ has been openly mocked for claiming underworld medicine followed by emergency medpack is "significant burst healing". This would be more obvious if most of the healing regulars hadn't stopped posting already.
   
  
• Operatives lack of utility has been the focal point of a 70 page thread on this very forum.
  

Also just to sum it up a significant burst heal is healing 13k+ in 2.8 seconds which i can easily do a lot of times by popping advanced probe (1.2 seconds), med probe (1.6) and then followed by bacta infusion with relics its much higher. also remember burst healing isnt a constant thing thats the reason its called "burst" healing not sustained healing.

The problem is that this is not "Burst Healing."

What abilities did you use?

AP/MP/BI+relics

Now let's look at the abilities you use in a basic healing rotation (assuming healing is needed), in order of priority:

1. BI on cooldown if not 12 Ammo
   
2. AP on cooldown
   
3. MP
   
4. HS to maintain Ammo levels
   

You might not be picky about the 12 Ammo limitation on BI, but if you are at 12 it is better to spend Ammo and then BI instead of using BI at 12. That's splitting hairs though.

The two main points here are:

1) BI is likely on cooldown since it is a core part of your healing rotation for Ammo conservation. If you are saving it, you are gimping yourself in the long run.

2) AP/MP/BI is your standard rotation. That it can heal for a large amount when chained without HS spacers isn't the point.

We lost our real burst when SCC and Field Triage were nerfed into the ground. Pre-1.2, our burst meant dropping BI and HS, casting AP/MP/SCC/AP/MP/AP/MP/AP/MP/KB then BI/HS to recover Ammo. That capability is now gone due to the 33% higher cost of AP/MP and the 50% reduction in returned Ammo from SCC usage, and the weaker SCC healing buff. All of this combined to require free filler during a SCC phase, and the weaker buff made doing so barely better than doing so outside of SCC.

In short, "Burst Healing" isn't the same as "I can do big numbers!" Burst Healing means an on-demand capability to change how you heal to produce larger than normal numbers, but at unsustainable rates. If you can "Burst Heal" for 5 minutes straight, that isn't burst, it's high sustained HPS. If your burst healing relies upon a 21s cooldown that is part of your core rotation, then that isn't burst, it is a spike in your HPS meter when that 21s interval aligns with the rest of the high HPS portion of your rotation (ie AP/MP/BI/HS/HS instead of AP/MP/HS/BI/HS). Relics are used during burst healing, but "same rotation + relics" is not burst healing capability.

The problem is that this is not "Burst Healing."

 

What abilities did you use?

 

AP/MP/BI+relics

 

Now let's look at the abilities you use in a basic healing rotation (assuming healing is needed), in order of priority:

1. BI on cooldown if not 12 Ammo
   
2. AP on cooldown
   
3. MP
   
4. HS to maintain Ammo levels
   

 

You might not be picky about the 12 Ammo limitation on BI, but if you are at 12 it is better to spend Ammo and then BI instead of using BI at 12. That's splitting hairs though.

 

The two main points here are:

1) BI is likely on cooldown since it is a core part of your healing rotation for Ammo conservation. If you are saving it, you are gimping yourself in the long run.

2) AP/MP/BI is your standard rotation. That it can heal for a large amount when chained without HS spacers isn't the point.

 

We lost our real burst when SCC and Field Triage were nerfed into the ground. Pre-1.2, our burst meant dropping BI and HS, casting AP/MP/SCC/AP/MP/AP/MP/AP/MP/KB then BI/HS to recover Ammo. That capability is now gone due to the 33% higher cost of AP/MP and the 50% reduction in returned Ammo from SCC usage, and the weaker SCC healing buff. All of this combined to require free filler during a SCC phase, and the weaker buff made doing so barely better than doing so outside of SCC.

 

In short, "Burst Healing" isn't the same as "I can do big numbers!" Burst Healing means an on-demand capability to change how you heal to produce larger than normal numbers, but at unsustainable rates. If you can "Burst Heal" for 5 minutes straight, that isn't burst, it's high sustained HPS. If your burst healing relies upon a 21s cooldown that is part of your core rotation, then that isn't burst, it is a spike in your HPS meter when that 21s interval aligns with the rest of the high HPS portion of your rotation (ie AP/MP/BI/HS/HS instead of AP/MP/HS/BI/HS). Relics are used during burst healing, but "same rotation + relics" is not burst healing capability.

Yes I can see were your coming from about burst healing how its a change from your normal rotation. What I meant about that is I only use bacta infusion when im at 10 ammo or the tank dropped below 50%. About scc i dont use hammer shot because I have my ammo recharge up still so I just burn ap/mp with kolto bomb for the damage reduction. That still is considered a burst heal since it is out of the normal core rotation it might of been weakened but its still the best burst heal out of all 3 classes. Also I am not saying that it is amazing, Im just stating from all the crappy burst heals ours comes out as the best still.

Also how am I gimping myself by saving it until i am at 10 and below ammo or if tank drops low? I'm just curious at your view point.

Also how am I gimping myself by saving it until i am at 10 and below ammo or if tank drops low? I'm just curious at your view point.

I believe his point was that saving BI for burst means one (or a combination) of three things:

1) You're spending ammo faster (and dipping into lower regen tiers) to keep up with the healing

2) You're healing less efficiently in order to compensate for faster ammo spending

3) You're being carried by another healer so you don't need to keep up with the healing