Toth & Zorn HM still overtuned.

There is an alternative that I am surprised no one mentioned. If they did, I must have missed it in the multitude of posts about this. I won't go into too many details about the encounter because several people have already illustrated the mechanics to you.

With that said, a viable strat in both 8 and 16 that requires a little coordination is to just switch the bosses. Keep them far enough apart that fearful only applies to one group at a time and you can split your melee up. We have done this on both 8/16 HM with only 1 ranged dps on 8, and 2 on 16.

Learn the mechanics, learn how to overcome them, and this boss is super easy. When you get Campaign gear it is more difficult than it is in full Rakata. You look at that statement and think "huh?" It is true. We have to call stop dps and sit twiddling our thumbs to prevent pushing phases early, and the enrage timer is tuned to those pushes pretty tightly.

The use of back-to-back (to-back-to-back) 10% phase changes was pretty shortsighted. They should have been time based (i.e. at every 10% of the enrage timer), and if you come back with enough gear to blow through the fight without triggering them all, who cares?

Z&T is completely undertuned, even for hardmode.It was previously tuned fine on the PTS when it was originally released, and a few guilds managed to kill it even in that form.

Now it's completely a joke. How are people struggling with it? They nerfed it so incredibly hard that even though only 4 people in our guild did the fight on the PTS, we one shot it in 16 man the first night it was out, 12 people never seeing the fight before.

There are no composition restrictions. The fight is so versatile that if you have ENTIRELY melee dps it's still doable, you just need to change your strat slightly.

This is what I have been thinking, I think we are being punished for high dps. It is like warlord Kephas the other day we actually killed the robot so quick we had 3 phases all happening at once.

You shouldn't really get punished for that.

I seriously think we are suffering because our dps is so high, that our healers can not keep up.

Thanks for your feedback. I still believe this fight is overturned, perhaps if they phase changes were based on time, you would not be punished for high dps.

Your DPS is so high?... When you're not in campaign gear?

I will admit, the fight is very annoying now that my guilds DPS is very high. It feels like you can AFK for 15s every time he throws a rock. Other than that though, DPS being high is meaningless.

THAT would explain a lot of our problems when we ran this the last time(2-3 weeks ago) with a random tank.
We just blamed it on the tank back then since he was kinda slow at times =d

You can switch prior to the debuff falling off... Just as long as your tank is smart enough not to attack the boss, just taunt.

Not that I dont doubt what you're saying - I'm sure youve done this fight atleast a dozen times more than I have, but we had to slow it all down.

Our dps is now mostly mixed rakata/black hole with the occasional Campaign piece, so I that's why we're able to push it too quickly. But assuming the OP's raid has been farming BH stuff, they could easily be doing the same.

I tried the whole taunting and just not hitting back, but even the double incoming damage from Zorn was too much for the healers to comfortably deal with, hence the need to slow down.
But yeah I can see how if the tanks and healers were very well geared they could heal through it as long as the tank didn't attack until fearful wore off.

I think the OP is just bad, the encounter is certainly not as bad as he may try to let us believe. I think the OP just din't bother make any research on the encounter and just come to the forum to DEMAND for nerf.

This is what make me think the OP just didn't bother doing any research. He try to lead his team as the encounter didn't change at all from normal
- he didn't notice the yellow circle under raid member used to dispell toth's berserk
- he didn't notice that the Fearfull debuff now reflect damage
- He didn't notice the new weakness debuff, and of course don't dispell it.

That's a good thing. Toth is not as much a gear check as it is a skill/awareness check.

It's part of the strat to know how to equilibrate, redirect or even stop dps as necessary.

There we have it, this entitle baddy, that pay $15 a month so are entitle to down every boss with no effort involve.

I realize i may be harsh, but i hate too see a perfectly good game ruined by multiple nerf, due to whine post such as this one. Many raiders have killed this boss already, it's largely doable, no nerf are needed.

Either stick to story mode or man up and work the short coming of your strat, don't come on the forum and cry for nerf.