List of Marauder's / Sentinel's Defensive abilites - No More Misinformation!

There's no point to talk about external factors because maybe you push the healer and then get mezzed immediately too. External factors can benefit both sides. You have to restrict yourself purely to a 1on1 situation, i.e. you trying to create separation by yourself versus the tank trying to prevent separation, and every tank class has superior movement-related skills compared to just about every non tank class in the game. But this isn't like saying DPS classes have superior DPS skills than tank classes, because you can still fight back with inferior DPS skills and it's not harmful to do feeble DPS as opposed to none. Due to the resolve metagame, if you fight against someone who can trivially counter your attempt to create separation, e.g. you push a healer, Jugg intercedes back immediately, now you're worse off than not using your CC because the push give the healer extra resolve to work with at no cost. The most reliable way to beat a tank/healer combo is stun the healer twice and finish whoever has lower health, and yet there are a lot of time where I can't do this because someone filled the healer's resolve bar to prevent double stunning. In fact, you can only do double stuns if the resolve bar started empty, so any resolve on the healer drastically limits your options, as now you're limited to at most 4 seconds of stun versus 8 seconds of stun no matter how coordinated your CCs are.

I didn't say KB is useless, but it's overrated. People simply don't realize when a KB actually hurts your team and only tell you the cool story about this time you push the guy in a certain way that allowed this and that to happen, and forget the 10 other times you pushed someone so he got max resolve and now laughs at all your other CCs. Of course I use KBs whenever it makes sense, but it doesn't help you as much as you think, and certainly not if you're one of those guys who feels the need to use their KB whenever it refreshes. That's definitely harmful to your team.

I will say this, if a Mara is pulling top DPS in a warzone you've got some really lackluster sorcs, mercs and snipers on your team. It's one thing to pull top DPS for 5 minutes against a non-moving training dummy and it is a whole different thing to do it perpetually over a 20 minute warzone against live prey. In both PVP and Ops (dpsmeter.com) the *effectively applied damage* does not show a marauder as the top DPS. It's somewhere in the middle which probably explains why it has better defenses than some other classes (because it'd be piss poor if you nerfed their defenses too much).

Marauder is always competitive in the single target DPS category. Single target DPS guys aren't competitive with guys who can AE in WZ leaderboard, but that's really a different classification of DPS.

I don't know if Marauders have the highest single target DPS in PvP, but if they don't, they sure are pretty close, and whoever you think is better than they are sure dies way easier.

Maras shouldn't be pulling top DPS in WZ's since they have no AoE. Top damage doesn't matter though, especially if it's a heal-fest. But what Maras do have is the best single-target DPS and the best ability to effectively drop a player from full health to zero. It's also sustained DPS and you don't have to worry about resource management as much as other classes since you build resource. A mara can jump on one guy, drop him, move on to the next guy and drop him, and keep going doing very high sustained damage.

This is what we disagree with. I'm more interested about how things usually play out in game than how they could theoretically play out on paper and in game separate & gank is pretty darn good.

They have the best single target DPS and all that other stuff against an opponent who is AFK. Against real opponents a sniper, merc and sorc have an easier time applying that damage and over the course of a warzone should outperform a marauder consistently without using any AOEs. If they do not they are under-performing. I can tell you right now that my sentinel never, ever, ever puts up what I can put up with a gunslinger in terms of raw single target damage because I can apply that damage without moving around a whole lot and change targets much easier to react to the situation.

And that is not to say that my sentinel is not good or effective or fun to play. It's just to say that it is clearly not the case that sentinel offers the best DPS when played properly compared to other classes that are also played properly.

no, he has good reason for posting that. Just take a look at their abillities and then say that it's not op

Why would the external factors in a game favor one side over another? You can have someone root the tank, but someone on their side can root you too. Adding external factors is likely beneficial to the tank/healer pair because external factor = more sources of resolve, and a filled resolve bar healer is pretty much unstoppable when protected by a tank. Yes, the external factors can fill the resolve of the DPS side too, but having a full resolve bar doesn't do much to break a good healer/tank combo, at least nowhere as effective as a full resolve healer's ability to heal.

I mean of course I got separated from my healer in real games, but in real games there's more than just me protecting our healer too. One person's worth of CC is nowhere enough to overcome a tank's abilty to deal with movement-related CCs. You need multiple guys working together to separate the tank and the healer, which is perfectly fine, but if you got multiple guys working together then I can have multiple guys working together to protect the healer too.

Because the advantage lies with the attacker unless you do it all the time and it becomes too predictable. It's much harder to react to what someone's doing than drive the fight yourself and force people to react to you. We're a bit off topic at this point but I don't believe knockbacks are overrated at all - in practice they are very useful to me.

Range DPS obviously has an inherent advantage in WZ leaderboard just because they can do it from further away. In theory, if you're working together as a team, the melee should be trying to keep the enemy off your ranged DPS so you can basically think some of the range's DPS attributed to the melee keeping the range DPS safe.

I usually think of DPS in 3 classifications:

Range DPS
Guys who can AE but aren't ranged
Melee

There's no point to compare DPS across classification because the ones on the top will generally beat you very comfortably unless they just suck. What's important is that you win your classification of DPS, and Marauders often creep into the tier above them, just like Tankasin often creep into the range DPS tier too, and both indicates very powerful DPS capabilities.