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List of Marauder's / Sentinel's Defensive abilites - No More Misinformation!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
List of Marauder's / Sentinel's Defensive abilites - No More Misinformation!

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
06.11.2012 , 12:31 PM | #51
If you KB a Tankasin he just runs back with force speed.

If you KB a Jugg he has intercede.

If you KB a PT I'm not sure what they'd do.

KB is not as powerful as people think it is without some kind of terrain involved (Huttball). You're really just filling up the enemy's resolve while minimally inconvenciing them, which is why I said it's overrated. I obviously won't give up my KB since it's still good to have the option. When not in Huttball, the most common use I have my KB is to hit exploiters in Novare Coast that I cannot target. The next most common use is to interrupt a Ravage (though I prefer Spike for this purpose).

Xerain's Avatar


Xerain
06.11.2012 , 12:33 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
If you KB a Tankasin he just runs back with force speed.

If you KB a Jugg he has intercede.

If you KB a PT I'm not sure what they'd do.

KB is not as powerful as people think it is without some kind of terrain involved (Huttball). You're really just filling up the enemy's resolve while minimally inconvenciing them, which is why I said it's overrated. I obviously won't give up my KB since it's still good to have the option. When not in Huttball, the most common use I have my KB is to hit exploiters in Novare Coast that I cannot target. The next most common use is to interrupt a Ravage (though I prefer Spike for this purpose).
You don't KB the tank away you KB the heals away from the tank. If you do that and keep attacking them and the tank notices, you can pull two people away from the fight that is going on helping your team anymore.

It is more powerful then most people think and most people don't know how to play properly hence why the pvp forums aren't anything constructive.

Achyllis's Avatar


Achyllis
06.11.2012 , 12:45 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by dcgregorya View Post
Because guard has a 15m range? To push someone out of range of a healer? To knock people off of things? As an additional interrupt? For any one of a dozen reasons?

If you don't see value in a knockback then you're playing on a whole different level than the rest of us.
Fair points indeed. Not having one I didn't realize what I was missing.
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Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
06.11.2012 , 12:50 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Xerain View Post
You don't KB the tank away you KB the heals away from the tank. If you do that and keep attacking them and the tank notices, you can pull two people away from the fight that is going on helping your team anymore.

It is more powerful then most people think and most people don't know how to play properly hence why the pvp forums aren't anything constructive.
All tank classes have either Intercede or Grapple, which is a far stronger movement control ability than KB. Two of three tank classes have charge too. You're not going to beat a tank class in the movement game. Grapple is pretty much the 'Iwin' ability in terms of dictating movement. Once you annoyed me enough for me to use that ability, I get to decide where we fight, not you, regardless of what you do.

If you want to annoy a tank root/snare him. KBs rarely bother me at all and most of the time it just gives me free resolve to work with.

With the way most people use KBs, KBs is often more harmful because it serves to fill up someone's resolve bar without actually doing anything harmful to them if used at the wrong time. Unlike mez, you don't need a second person screwing up for mez to turn out to be harmful. I'm not going to say losing KB will somehow be addition by subtraction but most people would improve their game considerably if they use KBs less often.

There's this one time I KBed a guy on Voidstar so he can't stop the guy that was capping, and that's probably where people get these inspiration to use KB. But I also didn't tell you there was this time I KB a guy in Voidstar and he flew the wrong way and got closer and interrupted our cap, or the time I KB a guy and it filled his resolve so the guy behind me that had a stun up can no longer stun him. KB giveth, but KB also taketh away.

SinnedWill's Avatar


SinnedWill
06.11.2012 , 12:51 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
If you KB a Tankasin he just runs back with force speed.
After about 5 seconds (push + charge), assuming you don't do anything else to keep him tied up (i.e. force choke/backhand) - in which case you can keep them tied up for quite a bit.
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
If you KB a Jugg he has intercede.
Same as above.

Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
If you KB a PT I'm not sure what they'd do.
Same as above... but they gimp their way back to guard range (though they CAN use their equivalent to charge if there are hostiles around the healer, which should be dead by then) particularly long time ot get back if you drop a chilling scream on them and they don't have a hostile to use their equivalent of charge to (assuming they're tank spec).

Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
The next most common use is to interrupt a Ravage (though I prefer Spike for this purpose).
Spike costs 30 force and is double the cooldown time compared to overload, which costs 20 force. You're more likely to overload (the aoe knockback) on your tankassin than you are to have a free off-timer spike and the force to use it - spike can also be avoided if they have you obfuscated or saber ward is active.
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dcgregorya's Avatar


dcgregorya
06.11.2012 , 12:59 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
If you KB a Tankasin he just runs back with force speed.

If you KB a Jugg he has intercede.

If you KB a PT I'm not sure what they'd do.

KB is not as powerful as people think it is without some kind of terrain involved (Huttball). You're really just filling up the enemy's resolve while minimally inconvenciing them, which is why I said it's overrated. I obviously won't give up my KB since it's still good to have the option. When not in Huttball, the most common use I have my KB is to hit exploiters in Novare Coast that I cannot target. The next most common use is to interrupt a Ravage (though I prefer Spike for this purpose).
Usually you don't knockback the tank, you knockback the healer and leap to him for the root. Similar to harpoon where you harpoon someone and have someone else snare/slow them to prevent them leaving.

Can an equally skilled team counter the strategy? Sure, but the same thing can be said for every strategy for every game or sport in existence. Whether or not they'll have the skill to counter the strategy consistently and how you adapt to that is the whole fight right?

Edited to add more info: Let's imagine a game where there was only class and only one set of gear. The only way you'd optimize yourself would be to use your skills that you have with better timing and strategy. Play the game that way for a bit or at least put yourself into that mindset of how do I use position, separation, CC and interrupts to win fights and you'll be a lot better with any class you play.

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
06.11.2012 , 01:06 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by dcgregorya View Post
Usually you don't knockback the tank, you knockback the healer and leap to him for the root. Similar to harpoon where you harpoon someone and have someone else snare/slow them to prevent them leaving.

Can an equally skilled team counter the strategy? Sure, but the same thing can be said for every strategy for every game or sport in existence. Whether or not they'll have the skill to counter the strategy consistently and how you adapt to that is the whole fight right?
If you KB the healer they either intercede back to the healer or grapple you back. All tanks have one of those two abilities, and both abilities are on shorter cooldown than Force Push. Regular KB simply won't move the healer enough distance to matter.

This isn't about countering, this is about the tank just using his staple abilities. Good tanks don't get separated from his healer. From a design point of view, the tank classes have superior movement control abilities because that's what they need to do to contribute.

dcgregorya's Avatar


dcgregorya
06.11.2012 , 01:11 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
If you KB the healer they either intercede back to the healer or grapple you back. All tanks have one of those two abilities, and both abilities are on shorter cooldown than Force Push. Regular KB simply won't move the healer enough distance to matter.

This isn't about countering, this is about the tank just using his staple abilities. Good tanks don't get separated from his healer. From a design point of view, the tank classes have superior movement control abilities because that's what they need to do to contribute.
That almost never happens and it isn't like you don't have 6-7 other people on the team to make sure that won't happen. Saying a skill is useless just because you assume it will always be perfectly countered is silly. It's like saying CC is useless because of trinkets - things are on cooldown, people can't target fast enough, people get stunned, people get rooted, people don't always notice within a split second what is happening - that's the whole fight - that's what a fight is. If you don't want to use the ability that's fine, give it to me and I'll go win some games with it.

iNeXxS's Avatar


iNeXxS
06.11.2012 , 01:14 PM | #59
All these defensive CD's and you have the highest melee damage in the game. Maybe even highest damage of all the classes.
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Sevvy's Avatar


Sevvy
06.11.2012 , 01:17 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by DaedalusV View Post
List of sorc/sage defensive cooldowns:
Really?

Ugh, people are so bad.
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