Toth & Zorn HM still overtuned.

If your guild is fully geared and can't down this then your guild is full of scrubs that do not understand the fight mechanics, have not done their research, and do not know how to play their class...end of story (non arguable statement). HM EC is definitely a steep learning curve compared to other ops, however, it should not take more than 3 nights to get this fight down. If you are having a lot of trouble with this fight, you have absolutely no chance downing tanks.

Please do not whine about difficulty of boss mechanics - the whole point of operations/raiding is to make the game a challenge.

PS...we do HM Denova Z&T and tanks w/ 3 melee almost every week (2 marauders/assasin), and rarely get to do vorgath due to lack of rng dps in our guild. The trick we use is switching the 2 marauders every jump, where both melee jump back to toth after the bersek cue or when red circles pop up.

Odyssius
Krayess Obelisk (not for long thank God)

Wow, such a statement, there is not a learning curve for this boss, it has minimal things to learn. No matter how many nights we practice project is still broken. I have never wined about the difficulty of the mechanics. So you didn't read any of the posts.

How do you know we can't kill the tanks? We one shot them on story and found them much easier than the first boss. You can't just presume you know about my raid. My raid composition could be totally different and it is probably the only reason we are dying, if it is, the raid composition may not effect us on the other boss fights.

I know this bc of experience. Tanks on HM Denova are harder than Z&T, and are much less forgiving in terms of the enrage timer and other dps checks such as the spire dropping on Stormcaller DPS if 2 double destructions are triggered before defensive sytems is cast. You shall see why once you get there.

Maybe I came off a tad bit rude by saying your folks are lacking in skill, however, watch some videos and you should be able to down this boss with relative ease even with 3 melee. For example, I ran normal Denova last week with a guild we have an alliance with that has had similar issues to you, and since I taught them the strategy, they have been 1 shotting normal Z&T.

My raiding group has always been in the higher end of things, on servers we have played mmo's on, being stuck on this leads me to believe it is overtuned, it does not mean it is not killable. The swtor developers have the numbers they can see things we can only assume. I am sure melee heavy groups, groups with 2 sage healers and so on are suffering on this fight.

I'm confused, what is project, why is it broken, and how causing your tanks to get 1-shot?

I'm wondering if this is a terminology issue here.

We have no problem with enrage timers. Going over the tanks fight i think it is far more healer friendly, considering that is our major problem, and I finish the story mode tank fight on 100% force, I would be inclined to say we could kill the tanks.

Not saying we would one shot them. but could. I know we can kill Toth & Zorn, I am just not sure it should be taking us this long. Content is getting dull.

This is avoidable to some degree, however it is one more factor republic have to deal with that Sith not so much. Project is clicked. Toth and Zorn swap, project hits after the swap tank has debuff and kills himself. If the ability didn't have such a damage delay it wouldn't matter.

Aha, that does suck. Sounds like it should be a relatively rare occurrence though (and like you mentioned, can be avoided to a large degree). Don't let it blind you the other stuff that may also may be killing your tanks such as that damn wall bug that can insta-kill if you touch it right.

I've been reading this thread now and there are things I agree with you in and others where you are simply wrong. First off, yes the fight is very melee unfriendly like alot of the fights are in this game (And may I add allot of other MMO's). Being melee in a raid environment has (usually) always been harder than being ranged. And it's not only SWTOR that suffers from this design flaw.

That you and your guild decides to bring a melee heavy team to this fight is your choice. I do agree it should be just as viable as with any other setup,but it just isn't. Bringing so many melee makes it alot harder for your healers since the AOE the bosses does themself is 99.9% unavoidable if you want a good dps uptime on them with a melee team. Range can atleast avoid these aoe attacks. So yes, your healers will have more to do with a melee heavy team than they would have with a ranged team.

About project. I don't play Rep so can't really comment on it being buged or what. But I can tell you that our guild uses 2 assassin tanks and we have no problems at all. It is a hard fight ontill you crack it, but as others have said. If you guys still after so long have problems killing this boss, then 1 or more in your team are making mistakes or are simply not upto the task. You may have cleared EC on story mode, but HM is quite a step up. What I don't understand is that if you say your team knows the fight and it's rather simple, why aren't they dead yet?

If you say the dmg is too high, then maybe your healers simply aren't upto the task or your team as a whole are bad at avoiding avoidable dmg. If you still think that this is not the reason I really don't know what to say other than try another setup. The fight is hard, but far from imposssible.

I just edited my previous post, however, I can agree with you somewhat in terms of the tanks being more healer friendly. On the other hand, the mechanics of HM tanks are a lot harder than they look. We also thought we would down the tanks in a couple of tries once we got past Z&T HM, but ended up not getting our first kill until about our 6-7th night.