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Escalating Gear Checks: A Requirement for NMM

Lymain's Avatar


Lymain
06.08.2012 , 03:33 PM | #1
Whether it's a DPS check, survivability check, or (preferably) both, NMM Kephess should require more than what is possible with iLevel 61 gear. Coming from EQ2, I really miss the feeling of gearing up for a purpose. Yes, we assume you might need gear from NMM Denova to clear the next zone on HM/NMM, but the faster you clear those zones, the sooner you're bored.

Gear checks can be used in NMM zones to increase the longevity of the content and challenge semi-hardcore guilds to finish one zone before the next is released. I understand heavy use of gear checks can be frustrating (perhaps even demoralizing) to casual players, but NMM is not for casual players, and it is supposed to be frustrating/demoralizing (at least to a point ).

Aurojiin's Avatar


Aurojiin
06.08.2012 , 03:51 PM | #2
My observation is that gear checks are much less frustrating to casual players than mechanic checks. Just sayin'.

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
06.08.2012 , 09:43 PM | #3
I like Mechanic checks.

Some of the best SWTOR fights are mechanic checks.
KP - Fabricator. If you don't have the puzzle down pat you will wipe.
EV - Soa, jump from platform to platform, a dead player is a loss of damage sponge, healing or dps.
D7 - all the D7 bosses are mechanic checks - I LOVE THAT FLASHPOINT.

Gear checks are really annoying
HM LI is a mechanic check (mostly on the first boss) and a gear check. It's the gear check aspect that annoys me.
HM Bonethrasher is a dps gear check - if you don't have good enough gear he enrages. That's not a mechanic check, that's just annoying.
Typhojem Legacy, Jung Ma server
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Lord of Corruption

Lovia's Avatar


Lovia
06.08.2012 , 11:59 PM | #4
I think you should have them all in an operation to give a complete feeling, gear checks, complex mechanics, puzzle encounters, encounters like the council in EV, long multi-phase encounters that have a mix of all opens with a complex phase, follows a puzzle and then a gear check for example i also really liked the trash encounter from bwl in wow, you had to progress through a series of rooms with respawning mobs and you had to stop the respawning to progress to a pretty easy boss.

Lymain's Avatar


Lymain
06.09.2012 , 12:13 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Lovia View Post
I think you should have them all in an operation to give a complete feeling
I agree!

I just want it to be 100% impossible to clear NMM Denova the first week, no matter how much time people put in on PTS or on live. You should have to gear up on the earlier fights before you can complete the boss. That doesn't mean that the boss should necessarily be easy once you're geared, but no matter how ridiculously challenging the mechanics are, some guilds will learn how to deal with them within a week of the content going live. You have to have gear checks to give the content some longevity.

If they don't want the gear to make so much difference in other areas of the game, they could create special mechanics that only apply in NMM raids (like how EQ2's critical mitigation was originally used). It's not a perfect solution for everyone, but it's a lot better than having people clear new NMM content without new gear.

Akam's Avatar


Akam
06.09.2012 , 05:30 PM | #6
HM kephess does have several gear checks; Baradium bombers, The 40/30/30 check on Warstrider, Kephess's 60% aoe phase, etc

I have yet to experience a face plant on my desk, or the overwhelming desire to throw my monitor through a window on any encounter/difficulty. I'm hoping the new nightmare modes brings that feeling back...you know those encounters where you do 200+ attempts in before you get it down rather than clear it within the first week, 2 weeks after it comes out.
hmd MAGENTA
5/5 NiM TFB | 5/5 NiM S&V | 5/5 NiM DF | 5/5 NiM DP

From Beyond | Dragonslayer | Gatecrasher

Vankris's Avatar


Vankris
06.09.2012 , 05:55 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
I
Gear checks are really annoying
HM LI is a mechanic check (mostly on the first boss) and a gear check. It's the gear check aspect that annoys me.
.
being able to maintain your rotation while watching out for electric dome or cast to interrupt , being able to anticipate your movement so you can fit some instant cast while moving, being able to maintain you optimum dps in chaotic situation,that is not a gear check, that is a skill check. Gear only compensate for player with poor skill.

This being they have to be some sort of gear check in every tier, otherwise, the very core of an rpg, getting better gear, would have no sense.

Action game like call of duty, tomb raider, splinter cell, you don't have to gear up you character, thus there is no real gear check, only skill check. For an RPG, you do expect the next tier of flashpoint or operation to be a bit more difficult then the preceeding, especially if it drops better gear.
Shadow | Kinetic Combat

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
06.10.2012 , 02:54 PM | #8
I prefer mechanic checks to gear checks. It think it should be more about SKILL than gear.

If a person who is a terribad (not a typo) player can consistently beat a good player just because they have better gear... then the game is BROKEN.

I've played games where gear trumps skill, and I've left those games behind. I like the fact that in PvP a person with Recruit can beat person with Battlemaster if they are a better player (don't say it can't be done, I've seen it done).

Making PvE bosses that can't be beaten unless your DPS is decked out in full Rakata or full Campaign is a BAD idea.
Enrage timers should exist so that a pug can't be entirely Healers and Tanks with no dps players - if it wasn't for enrage DPS wouldn't be as in demand. At the same time, making it so that you will always hit enrage if your DPS isn't in the right gear (Rakata for HM EC, Columi-Rakata for Nightmare Pilgrim...) is a Terribad idea.

I hope most of you agree with me on this one.
Typhojem Legacy, Jung Ma server
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Lord of Corruption

uniz's Avatar


uniz
06.10.2012 , 03:21 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Lymain View Post
Whether it's a DPS check, survivability check, or (preferably) both, NMM Kephess should require more than what is possible with iLevel 61 gear. Coming from EQ2, I really miss the feeling of gearing up for a purpose. Yes, we assume you might need gear from NMM Denova to clear the next zone on HM/NMM, but the faster you clear those zones, the sooner you're bored.

Gear checks can be used in NMM zones to increase the longevity of the content and challenge semi-hardcore guilds to finish one zone before the next is released. I understand heavy use of gear checks can be frustrating (perhaps even demoralizing) to casual players, but NMM is not for casual players, and it is supposed to be frustrating/demoralizing (at least to a point ).
i agree with you on this one. it makes little sense to add new content with better drops without having to gear up to obtain them. perhaps in the future content will be made where people must have certain gear from the previous nightmare in order to survive some boss mechanics or even the zone in the next one. it doesnt have to be crit mit but perhaps a new or additional set piece buff for such. some examples that come to mind are water breathing for a underwater planet, a simulair buff for a airless space station or a specific damage reduction/immunity buff for a mob ability unique to that zone. i dont think this would be hard to implement but it is something to think about.

Ellvaan's Avatar


Ellvaan
06.10.2012 , 09:00 PM | #10
Greetings everyone!

We appreciate the constructive replies and discussion!

We wanted to give you the following information which you can find in the Developer Tracker:

Quote: Originally Posted by AntoniaPhillips
Quote: Originally Posted by ZudetGambeous View Post

1. Devona should not be in the same tier as EV/KP.

2. No Gear check?
1. We agree and Denova will not be available through Group Finder when we go live.
2. Thanks for the suggestion! We are already planning for enhancements to Group Finder in future releases, and this is definitely one that we will evaluate.
Enjoy your discussion!