Nerfing Shadow/Assassin Tanks

These changes don't do anything to the overall "feel" of shadow/assassin tanks. The thing you will notice the most will be the reduce heal on proc'd telekinetic throw/force lightning. Aside from that, everything is the same but with a hair more healing.

I don't know about you, but I have a BLAST playing my shadow tank. It is, in my opinion, the best class in the game in terms of all-out fun. (*very* subjective call there) I find it challenging to play well, but profoundly capable and extremely rewarding.

I just tanked KP NMM on PTS with my rakata/blackhole geared assassin tank, didnt really have to much problems, the absolute biggest issue was with foreman crusher when adds spawned and attacked me, i took alot more damage than normally. other than that no big issue

Good for you! I absolutely think that everyone here is actually talking about if healers can overcome the deficiency of some tank classes or not. We are not at all talking about the balance in mitigation which is already slightly in favour to other tank classes in pve which ALL math show. But again, now we took a big step towards knowing that it is no problem to cut for example marauders dps in half as long as others can do enough damage. Thumbs up from me.

You are correct, my quote as edited by you is still true, and perhaps I could have been more clear. He was saying that, using other people's logic, scoundrel healers should be nerfed because they can also solo that heroic, just like Shadows. My point was that all the healer classes could do it, if they could all bypass the rest of the trash. They are balanced for pve. (I think Scoundrels have a slight edge in pvp due to certain mechanics, but that's off topic)

However, I'm not sure all the tanks could solo those encounters. Shadows were just better tanks, IMO, between survivability, damage and utility.

You guys should read some of the threads/posts about the adjustments made to Guardian tanking. "We were already the worst tanks, how could Bioware do this to our damage!?!?" "If they don't fix it I'm going to unsub!" "Me too, and I'm going to use the StuxNet virus to make sure everyone else does too!" "You won't have time, because now with this nerf, the sky is FALLING!!!11!"

Everyone always thinks their class is underpowered and any nerfs are a grave injustice and a crime against humanity, freedom, and puppies.

By the way, I have a Shadow and a Guardian, and I have tanked with both. They are both fine, but boy did I milk those heals the Shadows have. The class needed to be toned down a little in pvp and balanced for pve. I still think Bioware overdid it so they could step it back if they needed to. As for Guardians, I think a better play would have been to make aoe threat a little easier and not nerf damage quite so much.

I thought we were talking about the ability to tank in pve after the nerf, but then again i could be mistaken

everyone will receive nerf and buff, but remember that (absorb+self healing)=Mitigation
not just absorb

so yes, tankasins are over the other thanks when they absorb, and have spike because of the avoidance (more than the other tanks)

sky isn't falling (for no-one) and who will not enjoy their classes anymore will change (class or game)

I am not convinced about the "math" that is the problem. I want to see this math on live that says Sin tanks are inferior, because logs show otherwise when compared to other tanks on the same fight. I will be posting logs the next chance I get from my Sin.

Shadows/Assassins have stealth. We don't kill everything in the 4man heroic because we don't have 2. our survive-ability has little to do with the fact that we can solo the place. Scoundrels/Operatives can do it as well as healers with tank companions, maybe even as DPS. If the fact that we can do this quest alone really bothers you that much why not suggest bioware put more stealth detecting mobs in the 4m? >.>

"Yes sir, right away sir. Thank you sir!"

-Walks to adds because no Leap, immediately starts crying out in pain and tries to self-heal like he used to- Oh god! -Dies-

Damn you Juggernaut..

Yes you are. We are discussing pve tank balance. If they upp PT with 200k hp and 30% more mean mitigation we would also still be able to tank. I will not play a game for sure that makes my main into a charity case that is to be carried as he is sub par in his role which for me is pve raid tank. I do not object to nerf the hell out of areas were we outperform. That is not 16 man hm denova tanking however.

Not really important here but you are for the record wrong as Assassins does not have more than other tanks in avoidance. Jugger have a tiny bit more infact.

How about the facts. Mean mitigation is this: 1-(1-A)(1-D)(B*(1-C)+(1-B)) = Mean Mitigation
A=Avoidance, B=Shield Chance, C=Shield Absorption, D=MBADR

This is easily calculated and BEFORE this 1.3 nerf crap came everyone and their mother knew and agreed that Assassins/Shadows TANKS were a few percent behind in this "passive" mitigation but we were so close that it was still possible to tank. Then we have self healing which hardly scales at all which now makes it OP in 1-on-1 and sucks in a 16 man operation. No matter what number they set on the self healing in the current design will not work. Now they decided to tune it even harder towards pvp amount of incomming damage which makes us ever worse in end game pve as damage scales upwards alot.

An assassin tank have a mean mitigation of roughly 5% less than a PT (before any nerf) and this is supposed to be put on par with self healing. Anyone with half a brain will see that the current self healing system will never be able to make up for drastically increased damage as it will then have to scale ALOT and now it scales with health which in itself is closely static from columi to campaign. But SM SOA and HM Kephess are not even in the same ballpark and if it could make up 5% on 16 man HM Kephess hits it would become a complete joke in pvp.

All this equals fail. But I suppose it will make the assassin "tanks" in dps gear less tough when they do 500k damage in pvp, something which I never ever even touched half of as a tank in tank gear. How about solving that issue instead?

It is so bloody easy to see the problem! Take all current nerfs, flush them and do this:
1) Energize. Scrap it. Becomes OP with dps gear.
2) Harness Darkness. Scrap it. To much dps and the healing design of it does not work as it can never be balanced because of difference in incomming damage.
3) Add something to make up for our few % less mean mitigation. Be creative and surprise me. Try use some math here BW and hit some real targets and surprise me even more.