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Class changes and balance in Game Update 1.3

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Class changes and balance in Game Update 1.3
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Dubaco's Avatar


Dubaco
06.07.2012 , 08:34 PM | #291
As I play a tank assassin, I'm kind of disapointed about the defense nerfs, but this shouldn't influence my judgement.

They said they didn't want to hit the dark charge healing or armor buff too hard, so they hit both in a mild way. They also nerfed the healing from harnessed darkness (the one you get with force lightning). Essencially, Inquisitor's aren't phisically strong guys, but act with cunning and deception. This shouldn't mean an armor upgrade.

What I think they should do to make the class more unique is keep the dark charge and harnessed darkness healing (only reason to use force lightning with a tank sin, which is a really cool looking power). Maybe even make them heal more. To balance this out, they should nerf the armor upgrade Dark Charge provides us.

This would reflect on a more unique class, which is only viable for tanking because of it's inquisitor traits: using their knowledge of the force, in this case to heal through melee and ranged powers. It wouldn't have armor comparable to heavy armor users, and it shouldn't.


Please guys, give me feedback so I'll know I'm not crazy. =P
As someone said already, we can dream.

Paokzu's Avatar


Paokzu
06.07.2012 , 09:02 PM | #292
•The healing generated by Combat Technique/Dark Charge has been reduced by approximately 50%.
•The healing generated by Harnessed Shadows/Harnessed Darkness has been reduced to 8% in total (down from 12% in total).
•The armor provided by Combat Technique/Dark Charge has been reduced to +115% (down from 150%).


If this is a problem for the pvp'ers, address it in that arena please. As a pve assassin tank I count on these abilities you're reducing. I hope you reconsider this before this update goes live, if not I'll have to consider what I could do with another $15 a month.
"You should never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die."
http://www.cracked.com/blog/understa...ario-brothers/

Ink-Blot's Avatar


Ink-Blot
06.07.2012 , 10:52 PM | #293
I have read through most of what people have said and just don't understand why most agreed with the Sniper changes. I have been a Marksmanship Sniper since very beginning of game and I have never had an issue with energy at all. In fact my MM sniper is my highest DPS character. The whole point of the MM tree is to remain in cover and fight from a distance. I rarely run out of energy and I do wicked damage. For those that said they have problems, then I say you can't play the class. I don't like this change, but hopefully it doesn't affect my DPS that much. As of right now with the way it is I completely love my damage out put and energy regeneration. I also am wondering with you making Rapid fire a 3 pt skill are you going to remove some of the other ones? I like the way my build is right now and and now I am going to have to change some of my other stuff around to make up for those new 3 pts. Well these are just my thoughts on the matter. I don't get why it was said that Rapid Shot wasn't an awesome ability. I would think they would nerf it cause it was super awesome and not that it wasn't cool.

nDjiin's Avatar


nDjiin
06.07.2012 , 11:04 PM | #294
Quote: Originally Posted by JeramieCrowe View Post
Is that what's actually happening in testing, then? PvE has been "ruined"?
Yes they have reduced many classes so that they are now constantly overlooked in optimal raid groups. For example operator DPS, sorc DPS, merc heals, assassin dps (and if they are not very careful they are going to make the first completely useless class for end game raiding).

While at the other end of the spectrum you have marauders DPS running way ahead of the curve and they are doing nothing about it. I just dont understand what they are thinking - maybe its time they came in and told us.

What ever you are smoking BW, its time to pass the bowl round as we are gonna need it with this next set of updates.

Drudenfusz's Avatar


Drudenfusz
06.08.2012 , 12:05 AM | #295
Looks like my class will finally be nerfed... Hope the nerf for the shadow isn't too much (I am a little concerned).
My Old Republic Warring is Magic
Lana Everhope - The Drudenfusz Legacy, Shadow Tank on The Red Eclipse
When you play the game of PvP, you win or you die.
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Missandei's Avatar


Missandei
06.08.2012 , 12:35 AM | #296
Quote: Originally Posted by Drudenfusz View Post
Looks like my class will finally be nerfed... Hope the nerf for the shadow isn't too much (I am a little concerned).
Fear not! They just completelly destroyed Shadows as OPerations participants..

But it is irrelevant because due to the all efforts of BioWare team to destroy this game, there is no people at Fleet to do any OPS... Even for simple FP are very hard to find group..
So who cares about OPS you can`t do either way?

This patch from clueless team of Devs is the last nail... I will have much more free time when my 27 remaining days of sub ends and will find another task for my 15$..

This was a great experience for me as this was my first MMO..
Game designers and artists done a very great job, that was ruined by Management team..

i have great fun playing this game till February-March.. A less enjoiyable but still fun April.. Cant find people to do any PvE content from start of May..
So anyway as BioWare certainly lose another 200-300K of subs when 1.3 go live (they already lost 270K by June as «Free Month» ended) there will be just 3-4 monthes as game dies completely.. and im no necrophile..
Missandei Shadow ...yet shadows can kill. And oft-times a very small man can cast a very large shadow.

Bedrayne's Avatar


Bedrayne
06.08.2012 , 01:36 AM | #297
Quote: Originally Posted by TheRedNalroni View Post
1) What is the Target level aimed at for the Change?
As the change in Dark Charge is a change in a 'multiple' effect its effects Multiply far beyond the target nerf group.
Tionese Wearers will find that there low armour from the 35% reduction is going to be huge, making tanking in Flashpoints frustrating with a huge decrease in survivability. Where as Higher level tanks such as in Blackhole/campaign will barely notice the difference other than multiple mob tanking where again this 35% reduction is multiplied by each of the trash mobs being tanked. 2) The Armour nerf is multiplied for each and every additional Mob being tankedNot Only is this armour nerf a multiple of the Tanks base armour, every mob attacking the tank benefits from this reduction in mitigation. a 35% Difference is an increase in damage by 35% for every mob. 3 Mobs will mean the tank is taking the extra damage 3 times over.
OK someone failed basic math. If I tank one mob or 3 mobs my proportional increase in damage is the same. If it was 35% it would be 35% more damage. Each mob will do the same % increase. So 3 mobs hitting me at for 1000 = 3000 damage. If I took 35% more damage each mob would hit me for 1350 for a total of 4150. 4150 is 35% more than 3000, what do you know, the damage increase is the same %.
Now lets delve deeper into your misconception. The armor rating reduction is not 35% and the armor damage reduction modifier is most certainly not 35%, its .9% more damage taken. Yes 0.9% more damage.
Base Armor + Combat Tech + Stasis (20% talent)
Now 100+150+20=270
1.3 100+115=20=235
(270-235)/250=13% armor rating nerf
THIS IS NOT A 35% NERF!!!!
For my marginally geared (columi mainly) alt shadow tank
Current armor = 6746 AR = 38.45% DR
Current - 13% = 5869 AR ~= 5982 (an armor level i can reach) = 37.65% DR
Assume a bit more call it, what 37.55% DR to over value another 120 AR loss
So 38.45-37.55=0.9% mitigation loss... Oh no... less than 1% less mitigation... on a COLUMI geared tank, aka I am not far into diminishing returns.
Once again for the people who missed it the first time having Combat Stance move from +150% armor (aka 250% total armor) to 115% armor will cost me .9% mitigation.


3) Assassin Tanks rely on Armor Mitigation alot MORE than the other tanks
Base Armor on Each of the different types of tanks is respective of their Tanking itemisation where Juggernauts/Powertech and their Republic counterparts Have a higher Defence (avoidance) and their Armour is applied HALF as often as a Armor dependant tank such as the Shadow or Assassin that relies on the Mitigation of the armour. That in itself means more than the Tue Value of whether Assassins are wearing Heavy Armour or not

If a Juggernaut/Powertech is only hit 60% or 70% of the time due to high Defence rating. Heavy Armour only benefits when the tank is actually HIT.
An Assassin has much lower Defence and is hit 80% of the time meaning that the affects of armour on a Shadow/Assassin Tank is applied more often and that a reduction in current armour means that they will take more damage than the other two tanks because of this lack of avoidance almost Twice as often.
Um What?
Shadow - Def 27.27% Armor 6746 DR 42.45 S/A 62.66/50.85 Columi
Guardian Def 26.11% Armor 7494 DR 46.96 S/A 47.20/29.51 Columi/Rakata
Trooper- Def 19.41% Armor 8649 DR 52.95 S/A 50.31/38.21 Rakata/BH
All #s assume self buffs (20% SR for shadow and 8% SA for trooper) were up at max
I have literally NO idea where you pulled your ideas from.



4) Multiple Mobs, multiply the damage reduction exponentially
Assassins Dark Ward has but 10 Charges and without it makes their mitigation from shielding Worse than other 'Heavy Armor' tanks that have a base shield mechanic and do not have to rely on charges or a resource that can diminish quickly in a multi mob situation. An additional 10% shielding over the other tanks for only 10 attacks every 12 seconds or have 10% less shielding diminishes its effectiveness on multi mob tanking. This Multiplies the amount of damage an Assassin TANK will take over the other tanks in amulti mob tanking situation.
True and annoying that there are limited charges. However again if we take 10% more damage when shield is down it is 10% more damage no matter how many idiots are hitting us
Conclusion
ALL of this will inevitably render the tank as the WEAKEST and Last choice for Flashpoint and Operations groups.
I have no idea its effects in PVP I play only to RAID. But a Change to fix PVP that destroys the optimal viability of a class Spec is a BAD change. PVP will need to be adjusted some other way.
If you think that Shadow is anywhere near the worst tank in the game right now you need to learn to play your shadow better. I admit I don't do much beyond flashpoints and HM EV/KP on my tanks (My main is a DPS sage for EC HM) I find that despite the weakest gear my shadow is by far my strongest tank. In FPs and ops threat is a non-issue, control is great, AoE is on demand, the cooldowns are excellent, and I have no complaints other than Force Speed being somewhat of an unreliable gap closer as I occasionally am not facing the way my camera is facing. For running dailies it is the only tank that I run with a dps companion and never finish a fight under 95% health. I literally never stop with him and since his dps is higher than either of the other tanks plus the dps companion instead of healing it goes much, much quicker.
TLR Shadows are probably OP now, the self healing nerf will slow my dailies, the armor nerf is almost invisible.

Bedrayne's Avatar


Bedrayne
06.08.2012 , 01:39 AM | #298
I do wish that the statement that 31pt capstone abilities were going to be made worthwhile actually applied to sage/sorc dps. The most popular spec right now is a hybrid that gets neither of the 31s as they are underwhelming to say the least. However, if the game made one simple modification (consume a buff when resource is consumed) to eliminate double dipping there would be more of a reason to play full 31 balance or tk.

wolfmith's Avatar


wolfmith
06.08.2012 , 02:00 AM | #299
Senior Designer Austin Peckenpaugh,

so, basically you're telling us that you, the guy responsible for class balance, cares first about PVE balance and after about PvP balance. Good to know, since I was wondering why most of the classes that seem to perform way under or above others weren't changed. Now I know, you're a PvE guy.

Pyrotech tree wasn't changed (every BH I see on WZs using this tree performs at top DPS, regardless of skill. skilled players perform above everyone else)
Marauders weren't changed at all (go go Godlike mode FOTM class)
Operative healers will continue to be the best healer available, combining good healing with good survivability
Sorcerer healer continue to have crappy "usability issues" and a "quality of life" completely dependent on other players (the total opposite to the Operative)

I wonder if it's only my server that has good players and all others are screwing your so beloved metrics or if it's just you guys that fail to get the metrics you should. Maybe you're just looking at the PvE metrics, probably that's it.

Tankassins and Snipers were addressed, good. My question is, can you do your balancing across every class or is that just to hard to focus in more than 4/5 specs ?
Slancerk | Wolfmith
Kyrar Kote Legions Of Lettow
Proud PvP Player -
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Winstor's Avatar


Winstor
06.08.2012 , 02:48 AM | #300
Do not make it less enticing to play as a Shadow Tank...