Class changes and balance in Game Update 1.3

Are you testing it right now and giving your feedback? If you go play it right now, you'll know what role they have. And, I suspect, after a little adjustment in rotation, you'll find it.

And if there really is an issue, the more people playing it to give BioWare the metrics they need the better, wouldn't you say?

I have to agree with everything. For PVP balance to be of such a "great concern" they have attacked the wrong problems. Personally, I think they should leave the skills/heals/etc. alone. For me, I see the bigger issue is population on the servers, hacks being used, and crowd controls.

In a game that is drastically falling down hill, to a point they have freed up play on the first 15 levels in the hopes of getting people hooked in and are basically required to merge servers, this is not an all together wise move they have in proposal.

Our guild has seen a 2 for 1 change in the population and not for the better. 2 people have unsubbed the game frustrated with the dynamics and changes, only 1 has come in. With such a low population it won't take long until there is no game left, and therefore no PVP to be in the game for which is why they are killing the game in the first place ... to "balance" PVP.

Everyone has the chance to pick the characters they want - if they want to be able to compete, they need to find the way to do it. Swinging a hatchet at everyone else's skills isn't the right way - it's a cop-out and a slippery slope. Instead of the rest of us finding a way to do damage to the shadows in PVP the "developers" are just dumbing everything down to the lowest common denominator. If they continue down this path, it will become a matter of everyone does the same damage has the same armor and it's decided by who makes the first blow - cause after the first one it will be hit for hit until the armor runs out... no skill, no style, no creativity, no individuality, and no fun.

I'm a consular on my main. I am squishy as all get out. I do PVP. I die - A LOT. I heal - A LOT. I haven't yet found the way to be able to stand toe to toe with any other class especially with the imbalance of CCs to my one break move. However, no one has heard me belly ache about this. I keep trying. Mathematical equations and spreadsheets will never be able to decide how I can stand up and do a better job - the only way is to get in there, learn from my mistakes, and try to find the best means to do it. Sure this change will propose to make my job a bit easier - but that is not what I want. I don't play games to have the world handed to me on a silver platter. I play the games to work out the puzzle, to learn to play my class/character the best I can.

Let the classes that don't like going up against Shadows (since they got the worst of this nerfing this time) learn to do it better. Those of you who are glad that Shadows are getting their abilities slashed (if there is anyone - cause I don't think there is judging by the outcry) go an make shadows and find out what the weaknesses are. All the classes have weaknesses. All of them have strengths... until this happens. Just what will Shadows' strength be when you chop them all to bits and rearrange the pieces? They won't be recognizable as Shadows any longer - that's for certain.

Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis!

If you think it's a problem, give it a try on the PTS. Then provide feedback on the PTS forum, and your time spent on the PTS will give BW the metrics they need to make class balance decisions.

dude it's quite rude to assume we don't know about our class or it's rotations or how extensively we test or have not tested something. I hope they adjust it, everyone I have talked to that has tested as well agrees with me, we are not raging or failing to put together a good rotation, it's not hard to do. In PVP I am happy with the changes they were needed and apparent, but we are still good at what we do. In PVE it's fail sauce , not qqing stating facts, if BW doesn't change it, they either owe us resets or we won't be seeing allot of peoples shadows/sins outside PVP. Guess that's what BW want's it to be a PVP class

I will post in PTS forums when I have compiled all my research, I am posting here to encourage more to test their shadow/sin alts if they have them and see if I am wrong....more people screaming at BW for a fix, better shot we have at them actually adjusting it before 1.3 hits live.

That's in your opinion, based on your own experiences. But calling someone else an idiot for not going by the supposed optimal method? Please.

I have my own taste of how combat (PvP or PvE) should play out and I'll absolutely lower or raise my bar as needed. I know what's considered 'practical', I'm sure that tank also has his/her own notion for it -- and if you haven't picked it up by now, I too refused to spec into Harnessed Darkness because I disagreed with the properties of the passive, and the implications it presented for me, as a player. Combat in this game is simple enough as it is, I don't want to simplify it even further.

The problem I have with the changes to mitigation and self healing from Dark Charge and H.D. is that it takes options away from the player. I think it will be most apparent for Assassin and Shadow tanks who are under geared.

Yet they're failing on both fronts.

You're assuming an awful lot.

Perhaps I came across wrong in my post. I tried to make it sound like I meant: not assuming anything. I stated it both ways, because I don't know your personal situation, but I also didn't state it just for you. Others read this forum, too, y'know.

If you're not testing, test it, along with the fact that when adjustments are made to your class, you will have to adjust your rotation to optimize. If you are, give feedback. That was my post in a nutshell. No assumptions. If the shoe fits, wear it, if it doesn't discard it. And no, not just you.

Still wondering why all the tank nerfs are coming in pvp while maras/sents with their ridiculous defensive cooldowns are untouched AGAIN.

I guess to Bioware an 8 man warzone isn't about having a good combo of tanks healers and dps but of LOL FACEROLL DPS.

Currently Shadow/Assassins are a lot better with tanking than a Guardian or a Juggernaut. The damage a Shadow Tank does makes it rather common that you don't even run into serious problems because you've already killed the critter. I'm currently leveling a Shadow Assassin and it is like Easy Mode compared to what a Guardian or a Juggernaut has to deal with.

There are a few flaws in your statement.
1. There is an enormous DPS disparity among tanks, Shadow/Assassins do significantly more damage than a Guardian or Juggernaut Tank.

2. Shadow/Assassin Tank trees actually have skills that boost one's ability to tank, I'm sorry but the reason a Vigilence/Defense Hybrid can still match or outclass a pure Tank Guardian is because the Defense tree for Guardian is a complete joke. Guardian/Juggernaut Tanks are completely dependent on their gear, and their skill tree setup doesn't do all that much to help them.

3. Shadow/Assassins have CCs and stealth, something that Guardians and Vanguards don't have nor do their Imperial Counterparts.

You also have a self heal, a CC, stealth, and do at least double the damage a Guardian Tank does. You aren't as dependent on your armor as you believe. Vanguards are more dependent, that you are, and the skill tree for tank guardians is a total joke.

False, Consulars start off with double the Defense (avoidance) that Guardians do. Jedi Knights/Guardians start off with 5% Defense. I believe there is a skill in the Tank tree that might boost that to 11% while in Sorseu, but you have a skill in your tank tree that boosts your defense to 12% and isn't triggered by using a skill so you have a permanent 12% defense before upgrades are applied that isn't affected by your stances. Additionally blade barricade which is a guardian skill only increases a guardian's defense for 6 seconds.

That would be a good conclusion if the facts matched up, and they don't. Sorseu boosts our armor rating, it does not boost our Defense in and of itself. Your tank stance gives you a self heal, plus you have substancially better elemental resistance than a Guardian.


You have cc's in fact you are the only tank class with a CC, that means you don't have to deal with as many critters at the same time...

That's a gross exaggeration on your part, currently Guardians are probably the weakest tank class, you aren't as vulnerable to certain attacks that can't be blocked by shields.

I got news for you, your avoidance and damage resistance in some areas is a lot better than a Guardian tank currently. You also have stealth and a cc, plus you probably dish out at least double the damage a tank guardian can do currently, and tank guardians are going to have their damage reduced.

So are you saying that shadow/assassins should lose stealth, your cc, and your superior damage dealing?

You are the only tank class with a self-heal which you are not taking into account. You are the only tank class with a CC also, additionally the only tank class with stealth.

I think you are overreacting, if you think your class has problems tanking with these changes, you should try playing a guardian, we are extremely weak against elemental attacks which bypass shields, your class even with these changes are still going to be a better class for tanking for that reason alone.

Greetings:

I cannot imagine anyone considering 50% to be a small adjustment. Particularly in addition to a 35% reduction in a different field. This means almost a 100% reduction overall. I am getting a Shadow to level 50 and I find playing it to be a lot of fun. I am sure a lot of people do so as well. NONE of them are going to like losing survivability. I do agree that in some fights, Shadows are a lot more resilient when compared to other Tank classes, but this is not universal. Their dependence on procs make them naturally unreliable. If you do not add some serious constant numbers to that, they will simply die too often.
If the other tank classes seem inferior by comparison, buff them. Nerfing is always unpopular, buffing is always welcome.

Except, of course, in PvP. I have yet to see a single nerf in any MMORPG that is not derived from PvP complaints. From the Creature Handlers in SWG to the Stamina potions for Casters in AoC, to this. When you integrate PvE designed classes into a PvP environment, the result is imbalanced from the start. Since you already see Powertechs/Sorcerers in PvP in numbers sufficient to make the onlooker believe there are no other classes in the Sith side, you can deduce that people are making PvP only characters, no? So, make that the rule. Make PvP derived modifications affect only PvP. If a class seems truly overpowered, make it more difficult for that class to level. Give it an EXP penalty all around. Make players earn the power level they want.
But do not take away what they have already, and do not treat them like they were uneducated. The numbers you are quoting mean an immense difference, not a small change.

Then this is a little flaw in BioWare concept.. TTK that heals should be really UNINTERRUPTIBLE!