Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Class changes and balance in Game Update 1.3

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Class changes and balance in Game Update 1.3
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

danpen's Avatar


danpen
06.07.2012 , 04:35 AM | #211
Quote: Originally Posted by Protanos View Post
Having looked at new changes of a class the mercenary I consider this "designer" not as the competent employee since it broke that that worked and пыется to show that and it is necessary.
Where spell interruption for Merc/Com?
With this fix you lose many Merc players, you took away our rockets because of which we chose this class. For now Mercs have the lowest RDPS in this game.
I understand you so love marauders and jugger that on the mercenary of forces at you doesn't suffice but it is not necessary to touch that as so works.
They might add the back later on stop asking stuff that i have seen in this post before ok .
I am looking for people who need more help in the forums and i will be there to help you make it better ok.

zxckakel's Avatar


zxckakel
06.07.2012 , 04:45 AM | #212
this is what happens when noobs complain about balance. I do agree with Marauders/Sentinels being strong but they can be easily countered if a player knows what he's doing. QQ MOAR PLEASE
I just came here for the PVP...
Vys 50 Sith Deception Assassin(ToFN), Krossus 50 imm/veng jugg (ToFN), Dethecus 50 carnage marauder(Malak/Fatman)

danpen's Avatar


danpen
06.07.2012 , 04:47 AM | #213
Quote: Originally Posted by zxckakel View Post
this is what happens when noobs complain about balance. I do agree with Marauders/Sentinels being strong but they can be easily countered if a player knows what he's doing. QQ MOAR PLEASE
Yes but they they can take power's away and add new one's if they wont to ok.
I am looking for people who need more help in the forums and i will be there to help you make it better ok.

Corvidium's Avatar


Corvidium
06.07.2012 , 05:11 AM | #214
Without testing the assassin changes, I'm not sure if I'm angry or just getting defensive

But what I am currently is exceedingly frustrated as a main tankassin for our guild,

Willpower is our main stat but plays no part in our survivability tree (Darkness)

Endurance is nothing more than a pool of hit points !

I can live with these changes, but seriously please, make our stats scale with the gear that we accumulate for being succesful raiders!

another suggestion = Adjust the proc of saber strike to harnessed darkness, and lower the CD on recklessness.
so we have more CD's to process in a combat
and please for the love of the Emperor, increase the number of shields on Dark ward for multiple mob fights.

OR make some of the skills SCALE with stats or .. for every 100 points of absorb, add another proc or

Something that scales with gear at higher levels

tanks have No reason now with better threat to stack willpower . .. none, nil, nada

danpen's Avatar


danpen
06.07.2012 , 05:18 AM | #215
So what do you think is up then.
I am looking for people who need more help in the forums and i will be there to help you make it better ok.

Corvidium's Avatar


Corvidium
06.07.2012 , 05:34 AM | #216
Quote: Originally Posted by danpen View Post
So what do you think is up then.
What's up ??

is that I'll be able to draw aggro from everything in a galaxy wide sector, but in 2 mili seconds time

while I wait for 3 stacks of HD to proc and then get a cast of force lighting for my 8% heals ... I'll be knocked back and flattened by a gang of junior Lisk scouts !

I'm happy to have a tanking rotation and work on it, and try and keep aggro and position myself and position the boss, and move around avoiding lighting spikes, and control adds, and avoid CC'ed stuff

All at the same time, but at least give me the capability to gear up in the right way.

Have you seen the rubbish stats on a full set of Black hole gear ??
no set bonuses
and it's ALL Defence and Shield, hardly any absorb ... it's like someone just threw some mods into our gear and said
"yeah, that looks pretty sh**, they'll wear it !"

there's nothing that makes sense about gearing and speccing for Assassin tank
it's possible .. but you need to RIP OUT all the original stuff and scrape together different mods to insert

/rant over sorry, gone off at a tangent here

danpen's Avatar


danpen
06.07.2012 , 05:36 AM | #217
Quote: Originally Posted by Corvidium View Post
What's up ??

is that I'll be able to draw aggro from everything in a galaxy wide sector, but in 2 mili seconds time

while I wait for 3 stacks of HD to proc and then get a cast of force lighting for my 8% heals ... I'll be knocked back and flattened by a gang of junior Lisk scouts !

I'm happy to have a tanking rotation and work on it, and try and keep aggro and position myself and position the boss, and move around avoiding lighting spikes, and control adds, and avoid CC'ed stuff

All at the same time, but at least give me the capability to gear up in the right way.

Have you seen the rubbish stats on a full set of Black hole gear ??
no set bonuses
and it's ALL Defence and Shield, hardly any absorb ... it's like someone just threw some mods into our gear and said
"yeah, that looks pretty sh**, they'll wear it !"

there's nothing that makes sense about gearing and speccing for Assassin tank
it's possible .. but you need to RIP OUT all the original stuff and scrape together different mods to insert

/rant over sorry, gone off at a tangent here
Nothing i was just asking you so you do not need to ask me you need to say something nice and not horrible.
I am looking for people who need more help in the forums and i will be there to help you make it better ok.

TheRedNalroni's Avatar


TheRedNalroni
06.07.2012 , 05:37 AM | #218
Assassins are actually the one class that has been receiving nerfs more than any other class and started out as a class that was weakest in their respective areas at the time of the nerfs (mostly killing their Hybrid specs as they were superior to their main specs).
This lead to a total rework of the Assassin Darkness tree with the addition of Wither and the self healing mechanic.
Now this has been deemed as above the '2%' respective target Bioware wants. After 5 Months of it being in and other specs and adjustments have been made to all classes during that time, I would like to know What made it suddenly a problem?

1) What is the Target level aimed at for the Change?
As the change in Dark Charge is a change in a 'multiple' effect its effects Multiply far beyond the target nerf group.
Tionese Wearers will find that there low armour from the 35% reduction is going to be huge, making tanking in Flashpoints frustrating with a huge decrease in survivability. Where as Higher level tanks such as in Blackhole/campaign will barely notice the difference other than multiple mob tanking where again this 35% reduction is multiplied by each of the trash mobs being tanked. This will make Lower level Assassin tanks as undesirable for tanking and therefore unable to gear up to the respective level required for tanking.

2) The Armour nerf is multiplied for each and every additional Mob being tanked
Not Only is this armour nerf a multiple of the Tanks base armour, every mob attacking the tank benefits from this reduction in mitigation. a 35% Difference is an increase in damage by 35% for every mob. 3 Mobs will mean the tank is taking the extra damage 3 times over.

3) Assassin Tanks rely on Armor Mitigation alot MORE than the other tanks
Base Armor on Each of the different types of tanks is respective of their Tanking itemisation where Juggernauts/Powertech and their Republic counterparts Have a higher Defence (avoidance) and their Armour is applied HALF as often as a Armor dependant tank such as the Shadow or Assassin that relies on the Mitigation of the armour. That in itself means more than the Tue Value of whether Assassins are wearing Heavy Armour or not

If a Juggernaut/Powertech is only hit 60% or 70% of the time due to high Defence rating. Heavy Armour only benefits when the tank is actually HIT.
An Assassin has much lower Defence and is hit 80% of the time meaning that the affects of armour on a Shadow/Assassin Tank is applied more often and that a reduction in current armour means that they will take more damage than the other two tanks because of this lack of avoidance almost Twice as often.


4) Multiple Mobs, multiply the damage reduction exponentially
Assassins Dark Ward has but 10 Charges and without it makes their mitigation from shielding Worse than other 'Heavy Armor' tanks that have a base shield mechanic and do not have to rely on charges or a resource that can diminish quickly in a multi mob situation. An additional 10% shielding over the other tanks for only 10 attacks every 12 seconds or have 10% less shielding diminishes its effectiveness on multi mob tanking. This Multiplies the amount of damage an Assassin TANK will take over the other tanks in amulti mob tanking situation.

Conclusion
ALL of this will inevitably render the tank as the WEAKEST and Last choice for Flashpoint and Operations groups.
I have no idea its effects in PVP I play only to RAID. But a Change to fix PVP that destroys the optimal viability of a class Spec is a BAD change. PVP will need to be adjusted some other way.

To balance the classes if the change in armour mitigation is to go ahead:
If the Armour Mitigation of an Assassin Tank is to have Heavy Armour, it should have equal affect to the other tanks.
Reduce the other tanks Avoidance/Abilities to the level of the Assassin. Or Increase the Assassins Avoidance to the level of the other tanks.

Shield mechanics should be equal across the board, they should not use a resource and be limited by charges or use. They should mirror identically the affects of all tanks.

The classes mitigate armour in completely different ways and the adjustments planned significantly decrease the affectiveness of the assassin tank to Well below a '2%' target below other tanks. It doesnt need to be play tested when mathematically and theoretically shouldn't balance with other tanks. Testing the current changes is affectively formalising the changes as working as intended and is not a true test of viability. Largely due to the target group of gear level being FAR and WIDE.

______________________

My Own personal Circumstances and Whine is in the Spoiler because Im sure people dont want to see it
But these changes could spell the end of the game for me. And there is no other game id rather play.
Spoiler

danpen's Avatar


danpen
06.07.2012 , 05:39 AM | #219
Quote: Originally Posted by TheRedNalroni View Post
Assassins are actually the one class that has been receiving nerfs more than any other class and started out as a class that was weakest in their respective areas at the time of the nerfs (mostly killing their Hybrid specs as they were superior to their main specs).
This lead to a total rework of the Assassin Darkness tree with the addition of Wither and the self healing mechanic.
Now this has been deemed as above the '2%' respective target Bioware wants. After 5 Months of it being in and other specs and adjustments have been made to all classes during that time, I would like to know What made it suddenly a problem?

1) What is the Target level aimed at for the Change?
As the change in Dark Charge is a change in a 'multiple' effect its effects Multiply far beyond the target nerf group.
Tionese Wearers will find that there low armour from the 35% reduction is going to be huge, making tanking in Flashpoints frustrating with a huge decrease in survivability. Where as Higher level tanks such as in Blackhole/campaign will barely notice the difference other than multiple mob tanking where again this 35% reduction is multiplied by each of the trash mobs being tanked. This will make Lower level Assassin tanks as undesirable for tanking and therefore unable to gear up to the respective level required for tanking.

2) The Armour nerf is multiplied for each and every additional Mob being tanked
Not Only is this armour nerf a multiple of the Tanks base armour, every mob attacking the tank benefits from this reduction in mitigation. a 35% Difference is an increase in damage by 35% for every mob. 3 Mobs will mean the tank is taking the extra damage 3 times over.

3) Assassin Tanks rely on Armor Mitigation alot MORE than the other tanks
Base Armor on Each of the different types of tanks is respective of their Tanking itemisation where Juggernauts/Powertech and their Republic counterparts Have a higher Defence (avoidance) and their Armour is applied HALF as often as a Armor dependant tank such as the Shadow or Assassin that relies on the Mitigation of the armour. That in itself means more than the Tue Value of whether Assassins are wearing Heavy Armour or not

If a Juggernaut/Powertech is only hit 60% or 70% of the time due to high Defence rating. Heavy Armour only benefits when the tank is actually HIT.
An Assassin has much lower Defence and is hit 80% of the time meaning that the affects of armour on a Shadow/Assassin Tank is applied more often and that a reduction in current armour means that they will take more damage than the other two tanks because of this lack of avoidance almost Twice as often.


4) Multiple Mobs, multiply the damage reduction exponentially
Assassins Dark Ward has but 10 Charges and without it makes their mitigation from shielding Worse than other 'Heavy Armor' tanks that have a base shield mechanic and do not have to rely on charges or a resource that can diminish quickly in a multi mob situation. An additional 10% shielding over the other tanks for only 10 attacks every 12 seconds or have 10% less shielding diminishes its effectiveness on multi mob tanking. This Multiplies the amount of damage an Assassin TANK will take over the other tanks in amulti mob tanking situation.

Conclusion
ALL of this will inevitably render the tank as the WEAKEST and Last choice for Flashpoint and Operations groups.
I have no idea its effects in PVP I play only to RAID. But a Change to fix PVP that destroys the optimal viability of a class Spec is a BAD change. PVP will need to be adjusted some other way.

To balance the classes if the change in armour mitigation is to go ahead:
If the Armour Mitigation of an Assassin Tank is to have Heavy Armour, it should have equal affect to the other tanks.
Reduce the other tanks Avoidance/Abilities to the level of the Assassin. Or Increase the Assassins Avoidance to the level of the other tanks.

Shield mechanics should be equal across the board, they should not use a resource and be limited by charges or use. They should mirror identically the affects of all tanks.

The classes mitigate armour in completely different ways and the adjustments planned significantly decrease the affectiveness of the assassin tank to Well below a '2%' target below other tanks. It doesnt need to be play tested when mathematically and theoretically shouldn't balance with other tanks. Testing the current changes is affectively formalising the changes as working as intended and is not a true test of viability. Largely due to the target group of gear level being FAR and WIDE.

______________________

My Own personal Circumstances and Whine is in the Spoiler because Im sure people dont want to see it
But these changes could spell the end of the game for me. And there is no other game id rather play.
Spoiler
Hello i like what you put you know this you can put it in the http://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=349

Thank you.
I am looking for people who need more help in the forums and i will be there to help you make it better ok.

Endymionsama's Avatar


Endymionsama
06.07.2012 , 06:35 AM | #220
So healing in this game still has to suck? Wow I guess I wont be changing back to a healing spec ever again. Once my main gets to 50 I will just move all the funds to an alt and just use him for crafting purposes. Healing in this game has never been fun like all the other mmo I have played. Its just too much work for so little pay off. The aoe heal that you do get at the top is flat out garbage and is not going to really save a group. I hope you guys go back to the drawing board and put some healer changes in 1.3.