What makes a MMO an MMO and how does SW:TOR stack up in this regard?

Have to QFE this post here. Nuff said.

In my opinion:

The game is certainly an RPG. The question is... is it Massively Multiplayer? with servers that max out with 3000 concurrent players... I'm going to have to go with no. To reach MM status for me servers would need to be AT LEAST 15,000 concurrent players and preferably 25,000 concurrent players.

With only 3000 per server... any drop in population is immediately felt. Every online game has a surge of players in the beginning and then falls off to a stable level (if it's going to survive that is) With servers so small the fall off is readily apparent to those still playing and becomes a downward spiral. The game is unplayable when populations drop below 1000. So it's certainly multiplayer... The problem is it's not MASSIVELY multiplayer.

I agree. Add to that the fact that the population problem makes it non-MMO for most players.

I guess I am too logical of a person to understand giving emotional definitions to pre-defined terms.

MMOs were not created for community, or PVP, or massive worlds or any of that crap. They were created to make profits for devolpers. The people who played them chose to make them about community and PvP etc. Now most of the old schoolers are either not playint anymore or are the vocal minority and the new people who played them have chose to get away from the community and the old school PvP. Games always have been and always will be designed around making a profit, they are simply making MMOs like SWTOR to meet the demand of the new player base. The new player base couldn't care less about community or any of the stuff the old school MMOs had.

None of this has anything to do with what type of game it is.

^this sadly I think is the truth..
I remember playing, and developing MUDDS when I was younger.. those games were completely about community, and rp, and very little were about actually killing mobs..

What's even worse is people who believe that solo play should be excluded from (end game) content just because a game is an mmo, citing things like "group up, its an mmo after all.

Grouping is not, and should not be a requirement for mmos.

i disagree.. to get the good end game content, i believe grouping is and should be required. the fact that you think grouping shouldnt be required is exactly what is killing the community feel of this game.. why have a community if you can do everything yourself....seems silly to have an mmo that you can do everything solo.

i think bioware has a good balance of what is soloable and what requires a group.. what we need is healither servers.. thats all.

PvP server....? If not, then yeah....you eon't find that much.


Oh and advice for future.....this isn't WoW ...saying the "In Wow...." "But in WoW...." "I remember in WoW when..." comments are pointless here. Do your part to eradicate them.

Exactly this. There's nothing more I can add to this as you've said it perfectly! MMO's now don't encourage much in the way of community. There is nothing better than wondering around/heading into a social area and just chatting with people you've not met before and helping each other out.

Don't have to be in a guild to all of this, it's part of the spirt of a good community.

I posted this same exact thing in another topic, but I also think it's relevant in this topic as well. Here is my opinion on what would help SW:TOR a better, stronger MMO. Hear me out please..

I absolutely love SW:TOR. I have followed it since 2009 and remember when I was selected to participate in one of the beta weekends. Amazing, just an amazing game. Like others have said though, it feels more like a single player game with MMORPG elements rather than a full blown MMORPG. Here are a few things that I think would give SW:TOR that much needed boost:

• Economy

In my opinion and I think most others agree, the in-game economy is not good. There is very little reason to go to the auction house. The reason why is because it is easier and near cheaper to get your stuff at a vendor. Armor, weapons, medkits, mods, etc. All of those things can be bought and easily obtained at vendors with credits, commendation currency, or just looting NPCs. Bad, bad idea.

I don't suggest Bioware completely take out the NPC vendors, but don't have them sell items that are at your level. On each planet, set the levels of the items that the NPC vendors sell, below everyone else's suggested level for the planet and people won't buy as much stuff from the vendors. They will be forced to loot, and sell/buy it all on the auction house. This will provide for a stronger economy, and better supply and demand I would imagine.

Bottom line for the economy: don't let the NPCs sell the goods, let the players sell the goods. This will force people to craft and buy/sell their product at the auction house (GTN) thus creating a better economy and even better, a stronger community.

• Open world PvP

I cannot stress this enough, but with the addition of warzones there is very little reason to fight opposing players in the open world. Bioware does not get this, and neither did Mythic when they created Warhammer Online. MMO players love open world pvp. We have seen the posts over, and over, and over again, and I agree. Open world pvp helps bolster a community, and gives a reason for players to fight for their side.

Warzones in my opinion, although fun, is a bad way to incorporate pvp into an MMO. I understand the concept making it simpler and quicker for players who want to pvp but don't want to take the time to join a raid party, but sometimes going the easy route is not the right way to go about. In WAR it wasn't as bad because it was classified as an RvR MMO and the main goal at the end of the day was to sack the enemy's capital city. Everything contributed to the war.

This is not the case for SW:TOR. This is mostly a pve with pvp elements. There is honestly no point for open world pvp other than it's fun, but now people will rarely organize pvp raids because they can simply go into a warzone for fifteen minutes, and repeat.

Just imagine if Bioware hadn't incorporated warzones at all. Do you not agree that players would organize pvp raids more often? Why? Because that would be the only way to pvp in the first place, thus creating a much stronger community.

Bottom line: I know Bioware won't take their warzones away (I really wish you all didn't add them in the first place), but give reasons for people to pvp. I'm not talking about buffs and all that jazz either. Give people an option to capture bases or something that they can be proud of. WAR nearly had it right. The main goal was to capture an enemy city and to do that you had to capture territory. All in all it was fun, although horribly implemented in my opinion.

• Server Merges

I understand that Bioware is finally merging the servers and raising the pop caps. Good choice! I've been itching to see more people on the planets I currently roam. It makes it that much more exciting. Just hurry up please or you will lose even more subs with each passing month.

• Community

As you can see I bring up the word community a lot. That is because community is key to a fantastic MMO. Take every single successful and amazing MMO, and understand that they had/have a strong community. Although many people whine about the kids and idiots who run rampant in WoW, the passion does indeed make it more exciting and fleshed out.

Give players tools to building their community. That is why people play an MMO. At the end of the day the regular MMO player isn't just going to solo (why even play an MMO in the first place?). They want to join groups and interact with other people. That is the whole concept of an MMO.

SW:TOR needs that strong community vibe. Without it, it is stale and boring. Bioware, give players the tools to help build the community it needs. It has so much potential.