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So according to Bioware...


Ratior's Avatar


Ratior
06.03.2012 , 01:32 AM | #201
I have met some fact distortionists in my working life. This sounds like one of them.

Hotspur's Avatar


Hotspur
06.03.2012 , 02:38 AM | #202
Quote: Originally Posted by Onyx View Post
I'm curious how many people who've responded in this thread actually read the article.

It isn't about calculating the subscription number (i.e. the total number of subscribers).

It's about analyzing the various metrics of subscriber numbers--i.e. how many converted sales vs. how many total boxes sold, how many subscribed players logged in during a specific time-frame, how many subscribers from a specific geographical area, and so forth.
I think what you're saying--that the article is about analyzing metrics, and not about simply reporting raw subscription numbers--is an inference rather than a fact derived directly from the subject matter of the article. But, for what it's worth, I agree with you. The article, perhaps in an attempt at sensationalism, is missing the context with which to draw a reasonable conclusion about Lusinchi's intent. Clicking the link in the article though takes you to the source of the Lusinchi quote and shows us the question that elicited his reply:

Quote:
SPOnG: There was a news story a while ago suggesting a drop in subscribers. I think EA said it was down to a bunch of free trial users not carrying over to a paid subscription. What do you say to that? Is that a normal thing to happen, or is that cause for concern?
Nearly the entirety of the context-less article is Lusinchi's reply. Though I certainly would not suggest that there isn't some amount of avoidance going on in his reply, I think that a fair and reasonable reading, if you are inclined to be so, is akin to what you, Onyx, are suggesting. Now of course I know that many are not so inclined and would prefer to see this as hardly anything less than a willful deception on the part of Lusinchi and by extension Bioware (and, who can forget, our buddies at EA), and that some (or perhaps very much) mud slinging is merited. I personally think that too many forum posters fall into this type of negativity way too easily but I can allow that there is some amount of reason behind it. Perspective is personal and forums are forums.

I, however, like Emmanuel Lusinchi. He's always struck me as a straight talker and thoughtful speaker. All I see in the article is a guy with limited freedom of disclosure trying to provide a generous and meaningful answer to a question resembling more a trap than an interesting speaking point.
D ::::::: A ::::::: R ::::::: K ::::::: F ::::::: O ::::::: X
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Tiaa's Avatar


Tiaa
06.03.2012 , 02:47 AM | #203
Quote: Originally Posted by Hotspur View Post
I think what you're saying--that the article is about analyzing metrics, and not about simply reporting raw subscription numbers--is an inference rather than a fact derived directly from the subject matter of the article. But, for what it's worth, I agree with you. The article, perhaps in an attempt at sensationalism, is missing the context with which to draw a reasonable conclusion about Lusinchi's intent. Clicking the link in the article though takes you to the source of the Lusinchi quote and shows us the question that elicited his reply:



Nearly the entirety of the context-less article is Lusinchi's reply. Though I certainly would not suggest that there isn't some amount of avoidance going on in his reply, I think that a fair and reasonable reading, if you are inclined to be so, is akin to what you, Onyx, are suggesting. Now of course I know that many are not so inclined and would prefer to see this as hardly anything less than a willful deception on the part of Lusinchi and by extension Bioware (and, who can forget, our buddies at EA), and that some (or perhaps very much) mud slinging is merited. I personally think that too many forum posters fall into this type of negativity way too easily but I can allow that there is some amount of reason behind it. Perspective is personal and forums are forums.

I, however, like Emmanuel Lusinchi. He's always struck me as a straight talker and thoughtful speaker. All I see in the article is a guy with limited freedom of disclosure trying to provide a generous and meaningful answer to a question resembling more a trap than an interesting speaking point.
Probably, more than likely, the best response I have ever seen on this forum.

Onyx's Avatar


Onyx
06.03.2012 , 02:51 AM | #204
Quote: Originally Posted by Hotspur View Post
I think what you're saying--that the article is about analyzing metrics, and not about simply reporting raw subscription numbers--is an inference rather than a fact derived directly from the subject matter of the article. But, for what it's worth, I agree with you. The article, perhaps in an attempt at sensationalism, is missing the context with which to draw a reasonable conclusion about Lusinchi's intent. Clicking the link in the article though takes you to the source of the Lusinchi quote and shows us the question that elicited his reply:



Nearly the entirety of the context-less article is Lusinchi's reply. Though I certainly would not suggest that there isn't some amount of avoidance going on in his reply, I think that a fair and reasonable reading, if you are inclined to be so, is akin to what you, Onyx, are suggesting. Now of course I know that many are not so inclined and would prefer to see this as hardly anything less than a willful deception on the part of Lusinchi and by extension Bioware (and, who can forget, our buddies at EA), and that some (or perhaps very much) mud slinging is merited. I personally think that too many forum posters fall into this type of negativity way too easily but I can allow that there is some amount of reason behind it. Perspective is personal and forums are forums.

I, however, like Emmanuel Lusinchi. He's always struck me as a straight talker and thoughtful speaker. All I see in the article is a guy with limited freedom of disclosure trying to provide a generous and meaningful answer to a question resembling more a trap than an interesting speaking point.
Yep, you hit that one directly on the head. When I commented on whether folks had read the article or not, I really meant the original source article--my bad for not being clearer on that lol.

Short-version is that it was a marketing-speak, "politically correct", response within the constraints of his disclosure ability.
Star Wars fan for life
C C X X:
1st Special Forces Group
S . A . N . C . T . U . M . . . O . F . . . T . H . E . . . E . X . A . L . T . E . D
SWG: 2003 thru 12.15.2011 . . . . . Kettemoor ~ Starsider

Hotspur's Avatar


Hotspur
06.03.2012 , 03:10 AM | #205
Quote: Originally Posted by Tiaa View Post
Probably, more than likely, the best response I have ever seen on this forum.
Thanks Tiaa. I appreciate the compliment.

Quote: Originally Posted by Onyx View Post
Yep, you hit that one directly on the head. When I commented on whether folks had read the article or not, I really meant the original source article--my bad for not being clearer on that lol.

Short-version is that it was a marketing-speak, "politically correct", response within the constraints of his disclosure ability.
I always appreciate a good reader with an open mind, capable of expressing himself persuasively. Thus, you inspired me to reply instead of level my Vanguard with which I am currently enamored.
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Evironrage's Avatar


Evironrage
06.03.2012 , 10:00 AM | #206
Fatman - Heavy
Jedi Covenant - Standard
Drooga's Pleasure Barge - Standard
And the new player in all of this
Canderous Ordo PvE (east coast) Standard
All other servers are light.
I don't discuss things as a committee, I don't care about a protocol droid's opinion, and I wish I had more time to get her excited

Celebrus's Avatar


Celebrus
06.03.2012 , 10:09 AM | #207
Quote: Originally Posted by Evironrage View Post
Fatman - Heavy
Jedi Covenant - Standard
Drooga's Pleasure Barge - Standard
And the new player in all of this
Canderous Ordo PvE (east coast) Standard
All other servers are light.
It's ten o'clock!

People are just not logging in as much.

It was a holiday weekend last week.

It's a leap year.

The sky is blue.

All of these things are good explanations as to why the servers would be light but the population still somehow healthy.

/rose goggles off

Insomnio's Avatar


Insomnio
06.04.2012 , 01:01 AM | #208
Quote: Originally Posted by plumpjksinnfein View Post
what is the meaning of life and what is a subscriber?
That is deep. I bet it takes a lot of telemetry to figure out the answer.

Rescue_Bear's Avatar


Rescue_Bear
06.04.2012 , 01:48 AM | #209
Quote: Originally Posted by Hotspur View Post
I think what you're saying--that the article is about analyzing metrics, and not about simply reporting raw subscription numbers--is an inference rather than a fact derived directly from the subject matter of the article. But, for what it's worth, I agree with you. The article, perhaps in an attempt at sensationalism, is missing the context with which to draw a reasonable conclusion about Lusinchi's intent. Clicking the link in the article though takes you to the source of the Lusinchi quote and shows us the question that elicited his reply:



Nearly the entirety of the context-less article is Lusinchi's reply. Though I certainly would not suggest that there isn't some amount of avoidance going on in his reply, I think that a fair and reasonable reading, if you are inclined to be so, is akin to what you, Onyx, are suggesting. Now of course I know that many are not so inclined and would prefer to see this as hardly anything less than a willful deception on the part of Lusinchi and by extension Bioware (and, who can forget, our buddies at EA), and that some (or perhaps very much) mud slinging is merited. I personally think that too many forum posters fall into this type of negativity way too easily but I can allow that there is some amount of reason behind it. Perspective is personal and forums are forums.

I, however, like Emmanuel Lusinchi. He's always struck me as a straight talker and thoughtful speaker. All I see in the article is a guy with limited freedom of disclosure trying to provide a generous and meaningful answer to a question resembling more a trap than an interesting speaking point.
Thanks for shedding some light to this topic. Reading throught he pages felt like i'm just reading another rant thread until I got to your reply.
Quote:
Only two things are infinite, The universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Einstein
Spoiler

Dimedius's Avatar


Dimedius
06.04.2012 , 02:37 AM | #210
Quote: Originally Posted by Broodix View Post
...counting subscriptions seem to be some sort of scientific endeavor.

http://www.vg247.com/2012/06/01/swto...-says-bioware/



Really?

Get ready to have your mind blown: How about, you count the number of accounts with an active subscription within the last month! There, now hire me.

Joking aside, this looks like really shoddy attempt at damage control, and it makes me wonder if things are really worse than they appear to be.
I'm starting to think your right. It can't be that hard to track, especially in different categories (boxes purchased vs active subs). I mean aren't these the guys proclaiming they can literally track many different stats in game but hard to figure out their profits/losses?

This isn't the only thing that has me bothered about BioWare. They have listed certain changes in their path logs only when its actually in the game it works differently then what was stated. It's either that or they're not very competent with learning how to fix their game.

For example, 1.2 made it appear as though set bonuses transfer to custom gear. But "oh my" there isn't enough room to list all changes in their entirety. Bull. What it looks like to me is: "yes fans we have heard you and will fix it" and in reality "oh crap we can't fix it so we'll make a work around and state that it was a miscommunication".

More examples can be found with certain basic features that should have been in from the start. One of my favorites is the clunky click/targeting capabilities in pvp. They made it works "better" but they still haven't quite nailed it.

I really want SWTOR to succeed but they are unable to prepare themselves for their fan base (they mentioned at one point they didn't realize how popular pvp was going to be, sure it wasn't the fact you spent so much time and money on the voice acting only to run out of time and EA wanted to start seeing a return in profits? Pretty sure thats why it feels like most of the features are missing...).

Six months I waited, giving BW a chance to grow. Don't get me wrong, I've had fun while playing but quite frankly I'm tired of the PR BS that gets rolled our way because they think we're too stupid to understand. Remember those threads about just tell us whats going on? What actions are being taken to fix issues? Nope, math are hard to do.