Am I spoiled by my previous MMO?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic
Am I spoiled by my previous MMO?

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Dezzi

05.16.2012 , 04:27 PM \| #21	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by EcrirTwyLar I hear this a lot. Tell me what $15 can buy you for entertainment. It can't buy my wife and I tickets to a two hour movie. It can't even buy the snacks for the same move (Actually, the snacks usually cost me more than the tickets now days). If you are into espresso, it will probably buy you about three of those. That's like three days worth of coffee. I spend about $15 dollars for one cheap dinner to fix at home. Or... I can spend $15 and get an entire month of unlimited game play in an MMO. When I used to raid heavily, I would get in easily 50+ hours a week in entertainment. Now days it's more like 12 hours a week because my family and work keep me pretty busy. That's 48-400 hours a month. Seems pretty reasonable to me. It's not about cost, it's about value. It can certainly be argued that your $15 buys you more in WoW than it does here in SWTOR. Why? Quantity of content, quality of content and features, stable server populations, accessible convenience features, etc. This says nothing of the fact that everyone values their money--and their hobbies--differently. Using my WoW example, I would much rather save my $15 than take it to WoW if it was my only choice.
Ebon Hawk (RP) Peace \| Knowledge \| Serenity \| the Force I'm a Jedi because the galaxy needs Jedi.

Lunga

05.16.2012 , 04:30 PM \| #22	Quote
As a member of the community, I see an mmo and my sub to it as an investment in a game I want to play. The game at launch was and is great. Is it perfect? Nope. But that's why I cough up the 15$/month. Hopefully that extra money goes into developing more content, pvp in space, more customizable ship interiors, dual spec through Legacy, additional and stable open world pvp, RvRvR pvp, more WZ/FP/Ops, social activities... It's the same philosophy I had when SWG was still bug ridden and developing (until NGE), same goes for LotRO, and AoC. I know it's tough for people to swallow, but an mmo grows with it's community or dies by it's hand. If people leave expecting SWTOR to be as robust as LotRO or WoW or EvE within 12 months, then how are you suppose to live up to those standards? How will Tera, GW2, or TSW live up to those standards?

geulsae

05.16.2012 , 04:32 PM \| #23	Quote
You don't have to be spoiled by other MMOs to feel disappointed. Star Wars theme has so much possibilities and this game completely missed the boat. I mean just look at the choices of playable species.

TalkingDinosaur

05.16.2012 , 04:37 PM \| #24	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Razdek This world is flooded with mmos.... You cannot expect eah and every game to be the same... And because of this player expectations for new games are unrealistically sky high... Zomg ur game doesnt have this... Graaaaw you dont gave that.... Im a noob and unsubbing because you are not catering to me because i am more important to everyone else waah waaaah waaaah. You get the picture. WoW has spoiled and killed this generation of MMO gamers and it will only get worse unless Devs find anoher way to publish their games without making a deal with the Devil.
TALKINGDINOSAUR Squadron 11-11-11

Khoryphos

05.16.2012 , 04:42 PM \| #25	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by EcrirTwyLar I hear this a lot. Tell me what $15 can buy you for entertainment. It can't buy my wife and I tickets to a two hour movie. It can't even buy the snacks for the same move (Actually, the snacks usually cost me more than the tickets now days). If you are into espresso, it will probably buy you about three of those. That's like three days worth of coffee. I spend about $15 dollars for one cheap dinner to fix at home. Or... I can spend $15 and get an entire month of unlimited game play in an MMO. When I used to raid heavily, I would get in easily 50+ hours a week in entertainment. Now days it's more like 12 hours a week because my family and work keep me pretty busy. That's 48-400 hours a month. Seems pretty reasonable to me. The movie analogy is irrelevant. Different form of entertainment, different perceived value, different markets/price structure. However if I had two theaters to pick from that charged the same, I'd go to the one that was most convenient/ cleaner/ had better amenities. That's really my point. I only have time for one MMO among many. So I need to choose what is going to A- be most fun, and B- the best value in terms of both time and money. $15 isn't a lot of money to a lot of people, but that doesn't mean I don't want the best I can get for that money. Money is tight for some so they may emphasize that aspect and F2P may appeal more. They are certainly more forgiving of the shortcomings of something free. In some cases the cost in time is more important. For working folks with limited time, they'd rather log in, hop into a group for a dungeon/FP or two and maybe they have to log for the night. Or they can spam LFG in fleet to an empty server for 45 minutes. Which do you feel they value more? Maybe SWTOR isn't trying to appeal to that type of gamer. If so then fine, but there will be less subs. Somehow, I don't see EA going with that strategy however.

Khoryphos

05.16.2012 , 05:02 PM \| #26	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Lunga As a member of the community, I see an mmo and my sub to it as an investment in a game I want to play. The game at launch was and is great. Is it perfect? Nope. But that's why I cough up the 15$/month. Hopefully that extra money goes into developing more content, pvp in space, more customizable ship interiors, dual spec through Legacy, additional and stable open world pvp, RvRvR pvp, more WZ/FP/Ops, social activities... It's the same philosophy I had when SWG was still bug ridden and developing (until NGE), same goes for LotRO, and AoC. I know it's tough for people to swallow, but an mmo grows with it's community or dies by it's hand. If people leave expecting SWTOR to be as robust as LotRO or WoW or EvE within 12 months, then how are you suppose to live up to those standards? How will Tera, GW2, or TSW live up to those standards? You are right about community. However a positive community needs good relationships with the dev/Community Management team. The devs need to engage the community in regular, open discussion. That isn't something BW has been especially good at. It will be interesting to see how Tera, GW2, and TSW do at launch. I've had some opportunity to play GW2 in beta and I feel they are well on their way. Their focus is a bit different so it isn't 100% apples to apples comparison to SWTOR. I do know that their devs are better at interracting with the community on the forums.

Dezzi

05.16.2012 , 05:09 PM \| #27	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Khoryphos I do know that their devs are better at interracting with the community on the forums. Agreed. Say what you want about the game, but GW2's team has nailed the sweet spot of good, honest, and direct communication. It's like a breath of fresh air after SWTOR.
Ebon Hawk (RP) Peace \| Knowledge \| Serenity \| the Force I'm a Jedi because the galaxy needs Jedi.

Riven

05.16.2012 , 05:14 PM \| #28	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Lunga As a member of the community, I see an mmo and my sub to it as an investment in a game I want to play. The game at launch was and is great. Is it perfect? Nope. But that's why I cough up the 15$/month. Hopefully that extra money goes into developing more content, pvp in space, more customizable ship interiors, dual spec through Legacy, additional and stable open world pvp, RvRvR pvp, more WZ/FP/Ops, social activities... It's the same philosophy I had when SWG was still bug ridden and developing (until NGE), same goes for LotRO, and AoC. I know it's tough for people to swallow, but an mmo grows with it's community or dies by it's hand. If people leave expecting SWTOR to be as robust as LotRO or WoW or EvE within 12 months, then how are you suppose to live up to those standards? How will Tera, GW2, or TSW live up to those standards? I'd agree with you partially, since I was also one to support SWG up unitl the NGE. Times have changed since then though. There have been tons of MMOs released and lessons should have been learned. SWTOR missed the mark on a lot of things that are so obvious that it's simply incomprehensible how they could not have been included from the begining. The LFG tool, solid guild systems, a functioning trade market, etc.. These are not things that need to be reinvented. There are multiple examples of these available in pretty much every MMO available. SWTOR copy-pasted most of the stuff from WoW anyways but for some reason left out so much vital elements. Despite all of the things SWTOR did right, and there are a lot, the things they did wrong are painfully obvious. Saying it's because it's a new MMO is an excuse that just doesn't cut it in this case. I've played pretty much every major MMO and most of them have been struggling for what seems to be much more serious issues than SWTOR has. Still the player base is in decline. Not because it's buged to hell and back like SWG was or because it has huge content gaps like AoC had, but it is missing core MMO systems that have been established as must have over the past years. Sorry, but i have to revert to the car analogy. If you buy a new car to day your expectations are not set by the first car ever developed, but you expect it to be equal or better than your previous one. If your new car has no power steering, no AC, no radio or possibility of putting one in yourself, only one seat, no trunk and on top of that can only go 10 mph on most roads....then it probably wouldn't matter if it looked like a Ferrari from the outside, you would probably not buy it after the test drive.
Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation.

gurugeorge

05.16.2012 , 05:27 PM \| #29	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Mixxathon I just wanted to write something about what to resonably expect when subbing to an MMO, seeing that there are alot of people who seems to think that coming additions to this game "should have been included from start". My gaming history spans from EQ and EQ2 to WoW and LOTRO with a few more in between. With EQ there were downloadable content, quest really, that you had to pay for and all major additions to the game came in the form of a full paid expansion. WoW follows the same arch more or less, with major additions being full blown expansions. LOTRO on the other hand were a totaly different beast, with tons of free content being added each month, and I am talking huge parts of continent and several hundreds of quests, and of course there were also paid expansions, like Mines Of Moria that gave a huge addon, more classes and hundreds of quests, raids and dungeons, as well as totally new gamesystems, f.x. items that levelled with you, and minigames. I came to SWTOR directly from 5 on and off years of LOTRO, used to how things worked with that game, expecting that the industry had followed what had to be, in my mind, the best way of catering for their paying customers. That is; monthly addons wich actually gave me more that I had paid for when I bought the game, giving me a feeling of having made a great buy when paying my monthly downpayment. It would not really matter if I did not immediately use the addons, but it would feel like the gameworld was actually expanding by knowing that the stuff was out there for me to explore. In 5 months, I have paid roughly the same amount in subs as what I paid for the game in the store so in terms of value, I should be able to expect at least a seriously expanded universe by now - at least if I apply the model LOTRO used at the time of it's release. Patch 1.2 gave me something that I would count as added value - but that is about it really. I do not count new operations, or even flashpoints or warzones as, frankly, I feel that such things are too simple to be counted. Those things are too...small, too limited and over too quickly, and the game should be absolutely crammed with that kind of stuff anyway. What I count as content is actual explorable places, something that gives me something new to do, something to amaze me, something that actually feels like I have gotten more than I paid for. This has not happened in SWTOR. What I get is...bugfixes and tweeks and changes. It feels like I am paying for having the honor of Betatesting SWTOR, something I have always done for free with other games (and sometimes actually have gotten paid in the form of free months or free game at the time of release). I do not like this feeling, not one bit! I want SWTOR to be a perfect game, I want it to succeed, to be viable years from now. I love Star Wars, I have fun with the game - but it has already started to age badly. I reroll from server to server as they empty, and after having levelled 30+ characters, the content starts to feel really small, too repetitive. I swear I could recite whole questlines from memory I would like to have choices while I level, not having to go from Korriban to Dromund K. to Balmorra, Nar Shaddaa, Tatooine, Alderaan, Quesh, Hoth, and so on in the exact same order with the exact same quests over and over. I would like to feel that every character I have is different from the others. Just take the thing that happens when you first land on Coruscant with your Jedi Guardian and goes through customs and that cutscene comes were something deep and characterbuilding is said between you and your companion - you know the one I mean. And you know it because even if you did not play a Jedi, you would go through the exact same thing, just with different dialouge - and that goes for Imperial side too. How hard would it be to expand that with a weekly patch? Not that hard I suspect, given that BW uses the HERO engine wich takes pride in facilitating on-the-fly changes to the gameworld so it should not even be needing a patch - just a little creativity and care for the fanbase, paying customers and The Game as a whole. Bioware have always delivered for me in the past, and I expect, nay Demand! that they continue to do so as long as I feed them with dollars. OK, sorry for the longwinded text, but I needed to vent a little. You might think that I am one of those who threatens to unsub as soon as I do not get what I want, but I and quite the opposite. I will stay here for a few years, because I have patience, and truth be told it is not that much money even if I pay for both my sons, my own and my boyfriends accounts - but I want things done right - and the first thing for BW to do right now, while working out those bugs, is to give us a feeling that we got this game really cheap and that we would gladly pay double for what we got. Oh, and LOTRO went F2P and still pumps out new content on a regular basis..... just saying... Good post. I've still not given up hope for the game, but I'm not nearly as positive about it as when I started. BW just aren't fast enough at fixing and improving stuff to the QOL standard people have come to expect. Plus the game still feels a bit claustrophobic, and not really like a virtual place. I could understand the game having to be released when it did, with the barebones that it did, but I can't understand why, given its initial success, a hell of a lot more hasn't been pumped into it in the interim. The excellent storylines and voiced quests should be a backbone, but the game still needs a ton more content, and more variety, and more "virtual worldiness" - or some damn thing, I dunno. What I mean is, my pattern with SWTOR is, I get really into a character, follow the story, then get that claustrophobic feeling (i.e. that it's linear, that I'm not in a virtual world where there's room to breathe and explore), then suddenly I hate the game; then in a few weeks I get a hankering for a Star Wars vibe, love the game to bits for a few days, then get bored again. It's like an engine that keeps on nearly firing up, but never quite gets there. Plus the situation for trying to find groups now is getting harder and harder, even on the reasonably healthy servers. Not saying gloom and doom yet, but I am disappoint.

Cerion

05.16.2012 , 05:47 PM \| #30	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by GreySix What I want is a Star Wars RPG I can play cooperatively with my wife - no multiple other players - just my wife, perhaps over our home network. I can't be alone in this. Does nobody else want something like that? Sure, I'd like to play cooperatively with your wife..you don't mind?
Good will always triumph because Evil is lazy.

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