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Am I spoiled by my previous MMO?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Am I spoiled by my previous MMO?

Acherom's Avatar


Acherom
05.16.2012 , 01:36 PM | #11
I will say from an RPer perspective; LoTRo spoils the ever living #*&$ out of its players.

Just the feature of being able to play your own music; on an instrument of your choice was mind blowing.

And being able to get rich on raising a pipeweed farm was an oddly more entertaining then it should have been. Ah, roleplayers will buy anything if advertised right.
"These people have lost a homeworld through no fault of their own. Offering them a new homeworld is the least I can do to compensate them for their loss." - Darth Sidious

rpdowning's Avatar


rpdowning
05.16.2012 , 02:17 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by GreySix View Post
What I want is a Star Wars RPG I can play cooperatively with my wife - no multiple other players - just my wife, perhaps over our home network.

I can't be alone in this. Does nobody else want something like that?
Just pick a server with a real low population, can't be hard from what I hear. you two can be the only ones questing together.

ThiborF's Avatar


ThiborF
05.16.2012 , 02:54 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Dezzi View Post
Let's assume you are spoiled by having played other games: What's the problem? Gaming has become a highly competitive industry where new entries into the foray are expected to put up or shut up; new games will either deliver an experience that meets or exceeds players' expectations, or they won't. The games that don't will ultimately fizzle out and join the plethora of similar games on shelves, collecting dust.

It's not your fault that there are tons of games on the market. It's not your fault that many games fail to meet expectations when they're inevitably--and rightfully--compared to their competitors. It's not your fault that developers consistently deliver safe games that rehash and reuse outdated mechanics and features as opposed to new and innovative experiences.

Yeah. You're spoiled, but that's good for us and bad for developers. Maybe they'll get the picture and develop a game that expands on what the rest of the pack is doing. I found that game for myself, but it isn't SWTOR.
"Spoiled" might be not quite the right term though it's fairly close to me. Jaded with a touch of rose colored glasses is better, especially when you jump to a fresh, new game from one that's had years of seasoning. For whatever reason, many players as time goes by tend to forget the bumps in the road that most/all MMOs have in their beginning and rally around what was good.

To me, while it's a fair comparison to consider what game A that's been out for 3, 5, or 7+ years to game B that just came out, I think it's an unfair criticism to belittle the new game for all that it lacks when what it's being compared to had as little, or even less, when it launched.

Regardless of what it is that's perceived as lacking, it all takes time to design, code and test. We could have easily been just hearing whispers that beta would be commencing this Fall rather than playing a decently stable (note, I did not say "perfectly" stable) game for the past five months.

But people come from other games where they take for granted certain features and then complain they're not in the new game yet.
"WoW had dual specs, how could we not have them here?" - Didn't get added until first patch post Wrath of Lich King expac (3.1) ... April'09 or 4.5yrs after launch
"SWG had space flight not on rails. How come we don't here?" - Didn't get added until the JTL expac was released ... 16 months after initial launch
"WoW had cross-realm dungeon finder. Where's our cross-realm LFG?" - you may have been using it for two years in WoW before coming to TOR so it felt as comfortable as an old hat ... and you waited for 5 years for Blizzard to add it (patch 3.3)
"WoW's auction house worked so much better with superior functionality. How could BW screw it up so bad?" - Blizzard didn't even include linked auction houses (something we've had since launch) until patch 1.9 in Jan'06 ... or more than 1 year after launch.

Those are just a few of the comment laments I've seen on the forums since TOR's launch. Would it have been better, even great, if those things were addressed prior to launch? Absolutely. No argument here. However, if you think you'd be playing the game now instead of still waiting for it to come out so it could include those things and the many more that people give them grief about, you'd be luck to have been playing it by this Christmas.

TOR isn't perfect by any means. Then again, no MMO is. People either find the game they get fun, or they don't. If they find it fun then they tend to be a little more forgiving of its faults and have some patience with the developers until proven not worthy of that patience. Some folks are at or past that point already. However, some came in with expectations so high it wouldn't have mattered what BW served up, those people still would have been gone after 30, 60 or 90 days.

sergiopitanga's Avatar


sergiopitanga
05.16.2012 , 03:38 PM | #14
I think you are viewing lotro with rose colored glasses. Granted I did not stay long after they went f2p. Still the game had only a few raiding areas with extremely basic difficulty elements, traveling was a pain, grinding a must and I do not remember monthly updates. I was a full paying customer for about two years. I liked the story and instanced quests but aside from that, there is nothing that stands out. It is an ok mmo. There is nothing there I would recommend bringing it here. Well maybe one thing, I would bring the community, one of the best community I ever seen in any mmo.

kirorx's Avatar


kirorx
05.16.2012 , 04:00 PM | #15
I know I was spoiled by STAR WARS GALAXIES,

Here are10 things i took for granted:

1) multiple cities on planets with mulitple spaceports with the ability to travel by foot in any direction.

2) Day/night cycles, I was really surprised that they were not included and how much i would miss them.

3) PvP. I thought Restuss was LoL at times, but the open world GCW with the ability to control planets was far more entertaining then warping to planets and areas that dont exist outside of that warzone.

4) Chat bubbles and emotes.

5) The ability to sit down in chairs. I know this is coming soon, but lets hurry this up

6) Space Flight and loading buddys on my ship. My ships interior was awesome, complete with music and a bar.

7) Player housing, i did not even know how many games dont have this.

8) The ability to create and combine stats to customize my character to my liking rather than just "best loot".

9) COSTUMES. I loved these. I collected them ALL.. I could be a Gungan, a Rancor, a Hutt..Almost any NPC i could be. It was so awesome. I even had one to be a mynock.

10) Species options, I went from Mon Cals, Sullustans, Ithorians, Wookies to Chiss, Sith, Cyborgs and Miraluka
(i do like the options we have, i just miss the ones we dont)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I dont think SWTOR is bad and I suppose this style of gaming is the future of MMOs. I would like to spend more time on Korriban but instead i just hang in fleet waiting to go to another warzone. Its fun, I just wish they had combined a little more of the other Star wars game with this one. But wishing does nothing.

Khoryphos's Avatar


Khoryphos
05.16.2012 , 04:01 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by ThiborF View Post
"Spoiled" might be not quite the right term though it's fairly close to me. Jaded with a touch of rose colored glasses is better, especially when you jump to a fresh, new game from one that's had years of seasoning. For whatever reason, many players as time goes by tend to forget the bumps in the road that most/all MMOs have in their beginning and rally around what was good.

To me, while it's a fair comparison to consider what game A that's been out for 3, 5, or 7+ years to game B that just came out, I think it's an unfair criticism to belittle the new game for all that it lacks when what it's being compared to had as little, or even less, when it launched.

Regardless of what it is that's perceived as lacking, it all takes time to design, code and test. We could have easily been just hearing whispers that beta would be commencing this Fall rather than playing a decently stable (note, I did not say "perfectly" stable) game for the past five months.

But people come from other games where they take for granted certain features and then complain they're not in the new game yet.
"WoW had dual specs, how could we not have them here?" - Didn't get added until first patch post Wrath of Lich King expac (3.1) ... April'09 or 4.5yrs after launch
"SWG had space flight not on rails. How come we don't here?" - Didn't get added until the JTL expac was released ... 16 months after initial launch
"WoW had cross-realm dungeon finder. Where's our cross-realm LFG?" - you may have been using it for two years in WoW before coming to TOR so it felt as comfortable as an old hat ... and you waited for 5 years for Blizzard to add it (patch 3.3)
"WoW's auction house worked so much better with superior functionality. How could BW screw it up so bad?" - Blizzard didn't even include linked auction houses (something we've had since launch) until patch 1.9 in Jan'06 ... or more than 1 year after launch.

Those are just a few of the comment laments I've seen on the forums since TOR's launch. Would it have been better, even great, if those things were addressed prior to launch? Absolutely. No argument here. However, if you think you'd be playing the game now instead of still waiting for it to come out so it could include those things and the many more that people give them grief about, you'd be luck to have been playing it by this Christmas.

TOR isn't perfect by any means. Then again, no MMO is. People either find the game they get fun, or they don't. If they find it fun then they tend to be a little more forgiving of its faults and have some patience with the developers until proven not worthy of that patience. Some folks are at or past that point already. However, some came in with expectations so high it wouldn't have mattered what BW served up, those people still would have been gone after 30, 60 or 90 days.
Sorry, I don't buy it. I don't think it is spoiled to have certain expectations. All of those things you listed were new and novel at the time they were created, but not today. Those games contributed to the design evolution of MMOs. Good for them. They had a far more untested designs and far less competitive market back then. As for new MMOs, we expect them to use what came before as a groundwork and then add their own new twist to the genre. We expect more out of the gate from a new entry to the market, and we should- there is far more competition for our time and dollars. If they want our money they need to be at least as good as what's already on the market at that price point. If those other guys are doing all those things better then why switch?

No MMO is perfect, very true. However most people have a standard of quality that a game, like any product, must meet. Unfortunately, myself and others like me have decided that SWTOR does not meet that standard in its current form. At least not at its price of $15/month. I'll keep tabs on new additions to the game. If they can bring things up to speed, I'd be happy to give it another go.

Galafray's Avatar


Galafray
05.16.2012 , 04:03 PM | #17
Sergiopitanga has just beaten me to one of these but anyhow; I suggest you do 2 things (specifically referencing Lotro)

1. Remove your rose-tinted spectacles

2. Go here and see how many bug-fixes / tweaks you can find in the first few months entries. (I don't think you'll find those monthly content additions you remember btw).

I too am an ex-Lotro player and subscriber, from pre-release until October last year, when the focus on the store (a legacy of WB's takeover of Turbine) became too much for me to bear. I miss a feature or two that Lotro has for sure - the cosmetic tab being the primary one (customisable UI used to hold that position until 1.2).
But you have to realise that SWTOR has been in development for a long time, and many of the features we take for granted in MMOs were not part of the landscape when the ground plan for this game was laid out. That being said, Bioware have had plenty of opportunity to see MMOs developing while they created the game - and that is why things like the customisable UI have been added. These things are not knocked-up over a weekend, they take months to develop and integrate into a game, and I am confident that similar features which are now considered standard MMO fare will continue to be delivered over the next few months.
Of course if development appears to have stagnated in a couple of months time, then I shall be questioning whether I want SWTOR to be the recipient of my monthly MMO sub fee. But for the time being I am happy with what I am seeing.

P.S. I think that anyone who expects a new to market MMO to incorporate all the current FotM features in current MMOs - plus a twist - is setting themselves up for a lifetime of disappointment.

EcrirTwyLar's Avatar


EcrirTwyLar
05.16.2012 , 04:11 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by GreySix View Post
What I want is a Star Wars RPG I can play cooperatively with my wife - no multiple other players - just my wife, perhaps over our home network.

I can't be alone in this. Does nobody else want something like that?
There was a time when I was pushing heavily for a Star Wars version of Neverwinter Nights. If you haven't played Neverwinter Nights... That game allowed people to create their own adventures that they could invite others to join. Some people (Like myself) created our own persistent worlds (Almost like a mini-MMO). I still think a game like that would be popular. There is still a pretty good size community devoted to Neverwinter Nights.

I do think that you and your wife could have a lot of fun in this game. My wife played WoW with me for quite a while and that has even less content geared towards a two player group. If you could find a good guild that you and your wife can fit into, you might just have a great time.

EcrirTwyLar's Avatar


EcrirTwyLar
05.16.2012 , 04:21 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Khoryphos View Post
myself and others like me have decided that SWTOR does not meet that standard in its current form. At least not at its price of $15/month. I'll keep tabs on new additions to the game.
I hear this a lot. Tell me what $15 can buy you for entertainment. It can't buy my wife and I tickets to a two hour movie. It can't even buy the snacks for the same move (Actually, the snacks usually cost me more than the tickets now days). If you are into espresso, it will probably buy you about three of those. That's like three days worth of coffee. I spend about $15 dollars for one cheap dinner to fix at home.

Or... I can spend $15 and get an entire month of unlimited game play in an MMO. When I used to raid heavily, I would get in easily 50+ hours a week in entertainment. Now days it's more like 12 hours a week because my family and work keep me pretty busy. That's 48-400 hours a month. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Khoryphos's Avatar


Khoryphos
05.16.2012 , 04:26 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Galafray View Post
Sergiopitanga has just beaten me to one of these but anyhow; I suggest you do 2 things (specifically referencing Lotro)

1. Remove your rose-tinted spectacles

2. Go here and see how many bug-fixes / tweaks you can find in the first few months entries. (I don't think you'll find those monthly content additions you remember btw).

I too am an ex-Lotro player and subscriber, from pre-release until October last year, when the focus on the store (a legacy of WB's takeover of Turbine) became too much for me to bear. I miss a feature or two that Lotro has for sure - the cosmetic tab being the primary one (customisable UI used to hold that position until 1.2).
But you have to realise that SWTOR has been in development for a long time, and many of the features we take for granted in MMOs were not part of the landscape when the ground plan for this game was laid out. That being said, Bioware have had plenty of opportunity to see MMOs developing while they created the game - and that is why things like the customisable UI have been added. These things are not knocked-up over a weekend, they take months to develop and integrate into a game, and I am confident that similar features which are now considered standard MMO fare will continue to be delivered over the next few months.
Of course if development appears to have stagnated in a couple of months time, then I shall be questioning whether I want SWTOR to be the recipient of my monthly MMO sub fee. But for the time being I am happy with what I am seeing.

P.S. I think that anyone who expects a new to market MMO to incorporate all the current FotM features in current MMOs - plus a twist - is setting themselves up for a lifetime of disappointment.
It's not like those features are brand new anymore. Some of them have been around a long time now. Many of them are convenience type feature but not all. For example, a working, well designed and executed auction house is a major component of most MMOs. There is no reason that shouldn't be a priority during development. Even if something major enters the market midway in development it can be implemented in many (not all) cases. Games aren't developed in a vacuum, the plan may change many times during the development period. That is part of why it takes so long. They have been working on this game for years now and had a large budget to go with it. The current product does not reflect that.