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Make Recruit Gear a Requirement to Queue

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Make Recruit Gear a Requirement to Queue

stinkybird's Avatar


stinkybird
05.11.2012 , 10:29 AM | #211
Quote: Originally Posted by Foxrynn View Post
It's also disrespectful to think that people who don't buy the recruit gear are actually trying to hurt their teammates... I'm not going to lie, when I hit 50 I had barely 80k left after buying my skills for my rotation... Recruit gear is pretty expensive for a freshly hit 50. And keep in mind even if you waited 30 minutes to an hour to days, that person has waited JUST AS LONG AS YOU, and not only that, you were in the exact same boat as he or she was.
i hit 50 bought everything and still had 700k to spend on recruit gear. face it people that don't buy the gear are LAZY. they find every excuse you can think of why they can't buy it or wont. yet they will enter a 50warzone wearing gear that has not been changed since level 40 and they are sporting a whoppng 10k to 12k hp.

its takes maybe 3 hours of questing to make 400k in this game on the higher planets. stop being LAZY and do something in the game instead of crying that everything takes too long. if this game takes too much time then rethink why you bought it cause you obviously don't belong playing it.

hell if the idiots were smart they would max out comms before they hit 50 and be able to buy a few BM pieces right away. that would cut down on the cost of recruit.

dcgregorya's Avatar


dcgregorya
05.11.2012 , 10:35 AM | #212
You don't need to buy recruitment gear. I hung around outlaw's den while PVP queuing at level 49. In the time it took me to level from 75% of 49 to 50 I had main and offspec sets from recruit gear. A piece (suited to your class but random on spec) is in every other chest more or less and there are 4 chests that respawn every 30 minutes or so. I also had 2000 comms this way and thus the battlemaster weapon and relic within 10 minutes of hitting 50. Then I popped an expertise crystal I got off Rhakghoul event and magically had a pretty competitive set.

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
05.11.2012 , 11:02 AM | #213
Quote: Originally Posted by SneakyErvin View Post
You arent in-combat on any of your screenshots. You know how I can tell? You have NO trauma debuff. I get the exact same result as I mentioned in an above post. Flagged on fleet, unflagged on fleet and in the WZ spawn zone/out of combat.

With trauma end expertise the trauma would impact you with 30% - x% from expertise resulting in y% trauma debuff.

example: 12% expertise = 18% trauma debuff.
Listen to yourself. No shiz im not "in-combat", but you tried to debunk everything I have said by "Ship do you mean at fleet, you are not in PvP". Now I offer proof that I am in WZ and its "oh you are not in combat". All excuses littered with irrelevancy. Are you seriously suggesting that the exp formula turns "on and off" while in a WZ? Can you show me where ANY of your ideas are correct? NO YOU CAN'T, it hurts to have to prove people wrong when the answer is sitting there staring them in the face, but I am going to do a solid for you tonight when I get on.

I will show you both. One "in-combat" with the debuff on and one "out of combat" with the debuff still on. So how about you start it off and tell everyone based on my min tool tip value of 3132 and 7.52% bonus, what minimum value my heal will have? I already know what will happen. Do you want me to post my number first?



Ndiggy: Let me refresh ur memory.....
Quote: Originally Posted by NDiggy View Post
Its bad enough I have to wait 30 minutes to an hour just to get in a Warzone. But once I get in I get stuck with people who can't even be bothered to buy the Recruit set before they queue up for a WZ and then get steamrolled and are nothing but a liability to the team. Make it so you have to have at least the Recruit set before you can queue up for WZs.
Try revising this statement before you think I need to go elsewhere with my ideas; as ALL of my posts have been predicated on the fact that recruit gear means very little in the grand scheme of PvP (as a recruit gear player gets steamrolled just as easily). I am here to speak up for the players who get ridiculed in game by other players because of said "little or no EXP". I use math and game observations to debunk the EXP myth. I am your "ANTI-"

So before you insist that recruit or exp minimums are needed, understand what I have been saying, then say:

"If you are in LVL 47 greens, buy the recruit gear..."
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

SneakyErvin's Avatar


SneakyErvin
05.11.2012 , 11:31 AM | #214
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
Listen to yourself. No shiz im not "in-combat", but you tried to debunk everything I have said by "Ship do you mean at fleet, you are not in PvP". Now I offer proof that I am in WZ and its "oh you are not in combat". All excuses littered with irrelevancy. Are you seriously suggesting that the exp formula turns "on and off" while in a WZ? Can you show me where ANY of your ideas are correct? NO YOU CAN'T, it hurts to have to prove people wrong when the answer is sitting there staring them in the face, but I am going to do a solid for you tonight when I get on.

I will show you both. One "in-combat" with the debuff on and one "out of combat" with the debuff still on. So how about you start it off and tell everyone based on my min tool tip value of 3132 and 7.52% bonus, what minimum value my heal will have? I already know what will happen. Do you want me to post my number first?
I've said time and time again before I asked you what ship you ment that you need to be in active combat for expertise to kick in. Its a backguard mechanic to avoid exploits in PvE by just flagging yourself. Its pretty much explains itself in the PvP tooltip. It works just like damage buffs through skills and healing debuffs through skills. Like deadly throw and taunt, same exact mechanic really.

Your heal in active combat would be. A - (30 - x)% = y. Where A is your ability, 30 is trauma, x expertise% and y total heal after calculation.

2000 - (30% - 12% = 18%) = 1640. This would be 1400 without exp.


Quote:
Flagged on fleet.
Unflagged on fleet.
In waiting area of a WZ.

All results came out the same.

Healing avarage stated on ability tooltip: 2836-2978

Biggest three heals per situation during 25 heals.
Flagged on fleet: 2980, 3000, 2983. Crit: 5200, 5208, 5194.
Unflagged on fleet: 2996, 3006, 3000. Crit: 5189, 5206, 5198.
Denova spawn: 2984, 2992, 3002. Crit: 5186, 5202, 5209.

All was tested with the exact same buffs during all tries.
As I posted earlier. I can make some proper PvP example of those too by just adding expertise and trauma.
With 12% expertise:
2980 becomes 2444, 3000 becomes 2460.

Without expertise:
2980 becomes 2086 and 3000 becomes 2100.

Thats quite a difference in the end result, expertise vs no expertise. Plus the guy that heals for more will also abs alot more than you vs everything, uluding elemental/internal attacks which you have 0 defense agains in return.

You need alot of main stats and secondary stats to make up for those 3 expertise % buffs.

To go even with someone wearing PvP gear you need DPS stats to offset their DR, endurance to handle the harder hits he gives you aswell as stats to make up for the full 30% trauma. PvP is never a 1vs1 scenario, you should go equipped ready to face anything, not just people in recruit gear. If you go up against a BM wearing rakata or higher you will get smoked unless he is really bad. You will probably get smoked most of the times facing a recruit aswell. Expertise just brings that much of a buff for PvP, its designed to do so, to cancel out the PvE heroes that try to act tough.

edit: Forgot to include your minimum value. Would rather try max, but I'll just use the one you used.

"...3132 and 7.52% bonus..."

3132 x 77.5% = 2427.3
Ahahahahah!!

Zbus's Avatar


Zbus
05.11.2012 , 11:45 AM | #215
I put on my sad face when I see new players that are not in recruit gear at least. But I hold my annoyance in check and try to let them know in nice terms and a polite manner that they should really invest into a set. Heck I even offer to buy them a piece or 2 if they are low on funds to get them started. Main thing I try to stress is that pvp is like pve in a certain respect your group suffers if your a liablity to your team. Seems to work but the main thing is I dont get rude with them cause we all have been in that postion at least once in our pvp life.

ragnarz's Avatar


ragnarz
05.11.2012 , 11:47 AM | #216
Quote: Originally Posted by NDiggy View Post
Its bad enough I have to wait 30 minutes to an hour just to get in a Warzone. But once I get in I get stuck with people who can't even be bothered to buy the Recruit set before they queue up for a WZ and then get steamrolled and are nothing but a liability to the team. Make it so you have to have at least the Recruit set before you can queue up for WZs.
LOL.

You have 2 problems.

1. Your server population. You can blame BW for that.

2. Gear based PVP. Hate it or love it, you can blame BW for that too.

You can always wait longer by filtering entry or you can quit WZ in protest. Either way, game design ruins your current online experience.

SpaceAlert's Avatar


SpaceAlert
05.11.2012 , 11:48 AM | #217
Quote: Originally Posted by stinkybird View Post
i hit 50 bought everything and still had 700k to spend on recruit gear. face it people that don't buy the gear are LAZY.
No, this isn't quite right. People who don't buy the gear have no idea that entering a WZ with zero Expertise means that they will be totally and immediately destroyed.

They either need to make Recruit Gear a requirement to queue, or they need to significantly reduce the impact/amount of Expertise on higher-tier PvP gear. Because right now, there's nothing to even hint at the fact that queueing for a WZ will be instant death unless you do a Google search beforehand.

Lilouk's Avatar


Lilouk
05.11.2012 , 11:49 AM | #218
I agree with the title, not read the rest.

funkiestj's Avatar


funkiestj
05.11.2012 , 11:51 AM | #219
Quote: Originally Posted by NDiggy View Post
It takes a pretty selfish person to put the 7 other people in your group willingly at a disadvantage. Yet me not wanting people placing their teams at a disadvantage is elitist? I guess putting the good of the group ahead of the individual is the new elitism, who knew?
Coming back to the analogy of sports ... someone said earlier "a football coach would not let you play on his team without cleats ..." yes, but folks do play without cleats at the park with their friends. The current problem with PvP WZ is not that some people "play without cleats" but that top club team players (your 4 man premade) are often paired up with the "no cleats" folks. It would be fine if we had full teams of undergeared folks playing other full teams of undergeared folks.

BioWare is likely to fix this (ranked WZ preseason and later, full release) before human nature changes.

Mr. Hat says "BW support is the best"!
I am a bad player, so what?

Zbus's Avatar


Zbus
05.11.2012 , 11:58 AM | #220
I think alot of them just may not know any better being in 1-49 pvp most of the time and not haveing the same gear requirments may make them ignorant of level 50 pvp mechanics.

Maybe a starter pvp quest should be put in for a game played option like the game used to have when you first went into pvp with a pvp associated tool tip that pops explaining the concept. The reward should be a token they trade in at recruit vendor for 1 piece of recruit gear that way they get 1 piece of gear and are prompted to look for the recruit vendor to get the reward. If they are like most players they will browse the gear and the stats which should make it pretty clear what the benifits of pvp gear are heck add anouther help pop screen at the vendor to reinforce the idea again.