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Make Recruit Gear a Requirement to Queue

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Make Recruit Gear a Requirement to Queue

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
05.10.2012 , 12:50 PM | #171
Quote: Originally Posted by SneakyErvin View Post
Where do you get the idea that expertise only effects bonus damage? It is stated nowhere. It buffs damage done while in a pvp situation, it doesnt increase your damage bonus stat. Same with the damage reduction, its not something that effects your bonus damage, it effects total damage.
I swear man.... Don't you think I know this? Also please tell me where is says it affects 'total damage", it says "PvP Damage Boost" , that could mean either or, and I said even if that were the case where TOTAL was increased your example showed crit increase of 380HP!!!! I have tested it on Ilum have you?

Quote: Originally Posted by SneakyErvin View Post
Even in the graph they clearly state expertise is the way to go after 1.2, because it has that much of an impact. Pre 1.2 is a whole different story.
This was shown PRIOR to the release of 1.2. the equation still holds true, but the "advice" is not based on ANY comparision. I just gave you one...

Do I really need to do a askmrrobot AGAIN? You want a Rakata v. Recruit? Rakata v BM? Tell me.
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

DarthKhaos's Avatar


DarthKhaos
05.10.2012 , 12:55 PM | #172
Quote: Originally Posted by NDiggy View Post
Its bad enough I have to wait 30 minutes to an hour just to get in a Warzone. But once I get in I get stuck with people who can't even be bothered to buy the Recruit set before they queue up for a WZ and then get steamrolled and are nothing but a liability to the team. Make it so you have to have at least the Recruit set before you can queue up for WZs.
I love PvP but if you want to make this suggestion you have to make it also that you can't enter a raid wearing any gear with expertise. Fair is fair.
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F2P? NO THANKS
CANCELLED
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funkiestj's Avatar


funkiestj
05.10.2012 , 01:11 PM | #173
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
Expertise says increases damage done to players and I'm not sure why we have a reason to believe that won't affect duels/open world PvP. I mean, anything's possible, but there's just no reason to believe otherwise without proof on the contrary.
I don't know one way or another. Like you, I see a variety of possibilities. Having expertise affect duels / open world PVP seems the most reasonable but I want concrete data confirming this. I don't have a level 50 yet so I can't do a comparison of recruit gear vs PvE year.

I hope to hit 50 this weekend and get my recruit gear. At that point, if others have not reported on the topic of using duels to theorycraft expertise I will report.

Regards,
--jfc

Mr. Hat says "BW support is the best"!
I am a bad player, so what?

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
05.10.2012 , 01:12 PM | #174
Quote: Originally Posted by funkiestj View Post
I don't know one way or another. Like you, I see a variety of possibilities. Having expertise affect duels / open world PVP seems the most reasonable but I want concrete data confirming this. I don't have a level 50 yet so I can't do a comparison of recruit gear vs PvE year.

I hope to hit 50 this weekend and get my recruit gear. At that point, if others have not reported on the topic of using duels to theorycraft expertise I will report.

Regards,
--jfc
Here is some REAL numbers I did prior to 1.2.
[EDIT] http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=388132&page=4
Read note # 32 & #33
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

SneakyErvin's Avatar


SneakyErvin
05.10.2012 , 01:19 PM | #175
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
I swear man.... Don't you think I know this? Also please tell me where is says it affects 'total damage", it says "PvP Damage Boost" , that could mean either or, and I said even if that were the case where TOTAL was increased your example showed crit increase of 380HP!!!! I have tested it on Ilum have you?

This was shown PRIOR to the release of 1.2. the equation still holds true, but the "advice" is not based on ANY comparision. I just gave you one...

Do I really need to do a askmrrobot AGAIN? You want a Rakata v. Recruit? Rakata v BM? Tell me.
It doesnt matter what you try to prove with your deluded ideas. A pure 18% damage boost is better than a few secondary stats (the thing that the expertise slot occupies). It also has a far more forgiving DR than surge and crit.

And even that was shown prior to the release of 1.2 it still holds true that expertise is the way to go, otherwise the suggestion would probably have been changed.

I also see nothing in the mr.robot links that backs up anything you say, seeing as how the page is broken and not adding things up right. You will notice what i mean if you look at your own links.

Also, to quote what expertise says.

Increases damage dealt when attacking a player or companion character.
Reduces damage suffered when attacked by a player or companion character.
Increases health restored when healing a player or companion character involved in PvP combat.

None of those lines imply it buffs bonus damage like Force Might/Unnatural might does.

And I was very kind in my earlier damage comparison and gave you a 20% higher damage off the bat just for wearing PvE gear with higher secondary stats. There difference in game would probably not be as high as 20%.

Maybe if it was recruit vs rakata, maybe. But I doubt the damage would be that high. In which case the benefit is much higher while wearing recruit gear in pvp. Its not about 1vs1 situations, its group PvP. Not wearing it means you are harder to heal, have much less survivability and less damage versus pvp targets.

But hey if you want to be on equal footing vs a recruit geared pvper, go right ahead and wear rakata, just be ready to get mutilated by BM/WH geared people. Because they will most likely have the same or higher hp as you, same power, same surge, a bit less crit (if modded right) and deal 20% or more extra damage to you while you deal 18%+ less damage to them.

That is a large gap.

p.s. you can also mix and match to get the best secondary stats on your recruit gear.
Ahahahahah!!

Ybini's Avatar


Ybini
05.10.2012 , 01:19 PM | #176
Quote: Originally Posted by Foxrynn View Post
It's also disrespectful to think that people who don't buy the recruit gear are actually trying to hurt their teammates... I'm not going to lie, when I hit 50 I had barely 80k left after buying my skills for my rotation... Recruit gear is pretty expensive for a freshly hit 50. And keep in mind even if you waited 30 minutes to an hour to days, that person has waited JUST AS LONG AS YOU, and not only that, you were in the exact same boat as he or she was.
Quote: Originally Posted by joeypesci View Post
Agreed. This thread is one of the reasons I hate PvP, all the elitist rubbish.
Yeah I was broke by the time I dinged 50. Something ot keep in mind is if you turn people off of PVP, you won't have anyone to improve and play on your side.

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
05.10.2012 , 01:28 PM | #177
Quote: Originally Posted by SneakyErvin View Post
It doesnt matter what you try to prove with your deluded ideas. A pure 18% damage boost is better than a few secondary stats (the thing that the expertise slot occupies). It also has a far more forgiving DR than surge and crit.

And even that was shown prior to the release of 1.2 it still holds true that expertise is the way to go, otherwise the suggestion would probably have been changed.

I also see nothing in the mr.robot links that backs up anything you say, seeing as how the page is broken and not adding things up right. You will notice what i mean if you look at your own links.

Also, to quote what expertise says.

Increases damage dealt when attacking a player or companion character.
Reduces damage suffered when attacked by a player or companion character.
Increases health restored when healing a player or companion character involved in PvP combat.

None of those lines imply it buffs bonus damage like Force Might/Unnatural might does.

And I was very kind in my earlier damage comparison and gave you a 20% higher damage off the bat just for wearing PvE gear with higher secondary stats. There difference in game would probably not be as high as 20%.

Maybe if it was recruit vs rakata, maybe. But I doubt the damage would be that high. In which case the benefit is much higher while wearing recruit gear in pvp. Its not about 1vs1 situations, its group PvP. Not wearing it means you are harder to heal, have much less survivability and less damage versus pvp targets.

But hey if you want to be on equal footing vs a recruit geared pvper, go right ahead and wear rakata, just be ready to get mutilated by BM/WH geared people. Because they will most likely have the same or higher hp as you, same power, same surge, a bit less crit (if modded right) and deal 20% or more extra damage to you while you deal 18%+ less damage to them.

That is a large gap.

p.s. you can also mix and match to get the best secondary stats on your recruit gear.
Since when is Recruit gear moddable? Rakata, maybe? LOL...
looks like mr robot can add better than you. Check the endurance stat and tell me it was added wrong. Do you know how main/pow/tech/force contribute to your damage bonus stat? Those two comparisions assumes NO DATACRONS, NO BUFFS, SAME SPEC. Here lets assume trooper buff:

5% increase PvE gear= 12,474HP
5% increase PvPgear = 10,773HP

Now instead of 1620K difference; we are @ 1701K difference....
SAME THING FOR SMUGG BUFF, SAME THING FOR KNIGHT BUFF, ETC, ETC...

Here read note #33
http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=388132&page=4

This was prior to 1.2, the curve has changed, but the basis of the affect of the curve has not...
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

funkiestj's Avatar


funkiestj
05.10.2012 , 01:29 PM | #178
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
Here is some REAL numbers I did prior to 1.2.
[EDIT] http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=388132&page=4
Read note # 32 & #33
Thanks.

Mr. Hat says "BW support is the best"!
I am a bad player, so what?

NDiggy's Avatar


NDiggy
05.10.2012 , 01:37 PM | #179
Quote: Originally Posted by Ybini View Post
Yeah I was broke by the time I dinged 50. Something ot keep in mind is if you turn people off of PVP, you won't have anyone to improve and play on your side.
So put off PvP for a couple hours and go do dailies until you have the money to buy the set. Is it really that difficult? It'd be one thing if you could queue up with 7 other friends willing to carry you, but the people you're grouped with don't have that option. Especially if queue times are as long as they are on my server, leaving a WZ because someone refuses to buy readily available pvp gear simply isn't an option. If PvP is really that important to you, put aside the money before you hit 50. Plan ahead. There is no excuse not to buy and wear the Recruit set once you hit 50.
A countryman between two lawyers is like a fish between two cats. -
Benjamin Franklin

SneakyErvin's Avatar


SneakyErvin
05.10.2012 , 01:45 PM | #180
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
Here is some REAL numbers I did prior to 1.2.
[EDIT] http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=388132&page=4
Read note # 32 & #33
Below from your posts.

Quote:
The only real way to test which one was more effective was through self-healing because that does not include factors from other players. So I took my skill Deliverance baseline which is 2899-3014. According to some, +15% expertise adrenal should have made this range 3333-3466, which was not the case. After testing 10EA Exp adrenals, all heals fell between 2992-3045; crit heals were less than 5k(4978). This tells me that my initial thought that expertise ONLY affects your heal/damage bonus stat is true.
And

Quote:
The PvP testing was on ships and @ spawns in the filler time between loads/starts, and before cage releases(as to try to not affect the WZ too much). I would think having 100% health should not affect what the values are. It took about 13-14 WZ to come up with the numbers I have. I did not try open world PvP locals, but that is a good idea that I will try as well (especially since they are dead zones).
This is as flawed as expertise adrenal/expertise testing in general can get. You tried self healing, in cages, while waiting to spawn and so on, all according to your own statements in these quotes.

This does not bring any facts or data worth squat. You must be active in PvP combat to get the expertise bonus. Expertise only effects you if you are currently figthing another player. Also the 15% adrenal didnt increase your expertise %, it increased expertise rating by 15% i.e 100 rating+adrenal = 115 rating. But it doesnt matter, you must be in combat with another player for expertise to have effect.

For the love of all things unholy just read the expertise tooltips on your damn character sheet already.

"Increases health restored when healing a player or companion character involved in PvP combat."

Quote:
Since when is Recruit gear moddable? Rakata, maybe? LOL...
looks like mr robot can add better than you. Check the endurance stat and tell me it was added wrong. Do you know how main/pow/tech/force contribute to your damage bonus stat?

Here read note #33
http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=388132&page=4

This was prior to 1.2, the curve has changed, but the basis of the affect of the curve has not...
WH/BM is moddable, learn to read paragraphs. Unless you misunderstood my last line, which means you dont need to stick to just say eliminator when buying recruit if you want to max power or something.

And if you checked mr.robot you would see force power is missing in your first link for the off-hand. Didnt bother checking what else is missing on there.
Ahahahahah!!