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Why does every boss need an enrage timer?


Xarielle's Avatar


Xarielle
05.09.2012 , 08:37 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Raekor View Post
Some of them are in the game, just not as well implemented as we are talking about.

We practically agree though, instead of using thought and good design they screwed the encounters by using an arbitrary hard enrage after X time simply to force an "optimum" group set up. Worse than that, a lot of encounters really only require 1 tank (example Karraga). Do they tune those for a 2/4/2 group, or a 2(one in dps gear)/4/2, or a 1/5/2? If either of the first ones, does that mean people that do 1/5/2 are cheating the encounter as they can beat the timer a lot easier?

All this talk about hard enrages has got me thinking about the encounters, and I think by far the worst one is the Council in EV. Don't beat it X time, they disappear. Sure there isn't a repair cost, but it's stupid.
Precisely, even the encounters with soft enrages like Karagga actually hard enraged before the soft enrage mechanic becomes an issue. And yes they tuned the original raid encounters for 2/4/2 split but healing was actually too strong, alot stronger than they imagined which allowed you to drop 1 tank and add an additional DPS as well as completely ignore mechanics since the boss fights would be significantly shorter and since the main limit on the encounter was an enrage timer it made sense to stack DPS over executing the fights as intended. The council fight could have been so much more interesting as well, instead of fighting them there you could have easily been pulled into a Mind Trap which would give each person a larger area and allow you to expand on the boss abilities more and overall give a more unique experience.

gakha's Avatar


gakha
05.10.2012 , 01:46 AM | #52
So here's what I'm hearing, more mechanics less pew pew. When the majority of players are dps, you guys just want them to run around the boss dodging aoe, mindlessly pushing buttons, etc.... and not actually doing any dps. As has been stated, enrage timers are dps checks. The reason for the dps check is so that a fresh group of 50's can't just walk in and own the place. Where would the fun be if you hit 50, and didn't have to worry about gearing up. If your fresh 50, wearing all greens, could walk into any OP and as long as you could handle the mechanics you'd be fine. That hunt for that next BiS item so that you can burn the big bad monster, is what drives end game content. Personally, I feel that mechanics are getting out of control. I have no idea how many times over the years I've wiped because someone missed a cue and didn't run to a certain place at a certain time. Or they didn't cast a specific ability at a certain time. End game content shouldn't be easy by any stretch, but when you wipe for 2 hours on a boss fight because the margin of error for the mechanics is zilch, well it sucks.

Raekor's Avatar


Raekor
05.10.2012 , 02:03 AM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by gakha View Post
So here's what I'm hearing, more mechanics less pew pew. When the majority of players are dps, you guys just want them to run around the boss dodging aoe, mindlessly pushing buttons, etc.... and not actually doing any dps. As has been stated, enrage timers are dps checks. The reason for the dps check is so that a fresh group of 50's can't just walk in and own the place. Where would the fun be if you hit 50, and didn't have to worry about gearing up. If your fresh 50, wearing all greens, could walk into any OP and as long as you could handle the mechanics you'd be fine. That hunt for that next BiS item so that you can burn the big bad monster, is what drives end game content. Personally, I feel that mechanics are getting out of control. I have no idea how many times over the years I've wiped because someone missed a cue and didn't run to a certain place at a certain time. Or they didn't cast a specific ability at a certain time. End game content shouldn't be easy by any stretch, but when you wipe for 2 hours on a boss fight because the margin of error for the mechanics is zilch, well it sucks.
Not exactly. Some new mechanics yes, some tweaking to the current soft enrages. Most of my proposals have been changing nothing in the encounter except getting rid of the hard enrage and using the current mechanics in a way that means you might wipe at 5:30 instead of dead on 5:00 when the boss goes pew pew and everybody dies.

Pretty sure your last argument is for the removal of hard enrages as well. I'm sure there are people that have spent 2 or more hours wiping on a boss because they need 15 extra seconds to get that last 1-2% down which the hard enrage makes impossible.

Also, after all my arguments against hard enrages I do believe some fights should have them. Just not many.

Xarielle's Avatar


Xarielle
05.10.2012 , 08:24 AM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by gakha View Post
So here's what I'm hearing, more mechanics less pew pew. When the majority of players are dps, you guys just want them to run around the boss dodging aoe, mindlessly pushing buttons, etc.... and not actually doing any dps. As has been stated, enrage timers are dps checks. The reason for the dps check is so that a fresh group of 50's can't just walk in and own the place. Where would the fun be if you hit 50, and didn't have to worry about gearing up. If your fresh 50, wearing all greens, could walk into any OP and as long as you could handle the mechanics you'd be fine. That hunt for that next BiS item so that you can burn the big bad monster, is what drives end game content. Personally, I feel that mechanics are getting out of control. I have no idea how many times over the years I've wiped because someone missed a cue and didn't run to a certain place at a certain time. Or they didn't cast a specific ability at a certain time. End game content shouldn't be easy by any stretch, but when you wipe for 2 hours on a boss fight because the margin of error for the mechanics is zilch, well it sucks.
There needs to be a balance between execution and gear.


Quote: Originally Posted by Raekor View Post
Not exactly. Some new mechanics yes, some tweaking to the current soft enrages. Most of my proposals have been changing nothing in the encounter except getting rid of the hard enrage and using the current mechanics in a way that means you might wipe at 5:30 instead of dead on 5:00 when the boss goes pew pew and everybody dies.

Pretty sure your last argument is for the removal of hard enrages as well. I'm sure there are people that have spent 2 or more hours wiping on a boss because they need 15 extra seconds to get that last 1-2% down which the hard enrage makes impossible.

Also, after all my arguments against hard enrages I do believe some fights should have them. Just not many.
Some of the enrages in this game don't mean instant death, you can still survive well after the enrage, sometimes for quite a while. What most people seem to be complaining about though isn't the enrage timers but the fact that executing the fight properly doesn't give any leeway because at the end of the day you have X amount of time to kill the monster so instead of focusing on the best execution they focus on doing the most DPS they can.