This is the type of gaming I miss..

Well, that is an entirely different arguement altogether. If we are comparing communities and not games, then that's another kind of fox hunt, as they say.

My only statement for that is that there were jerks then, and there are jerks now, and there were good people then, and there are good people now. Age doesn't matter, background doesn't matter. Either you are a jerk or you aren't. Either you're a good community member or you aren't. You want a good community in a game, step up and take the lead. Don't blame the game for not fostering the community you wish you had.

Very much so.. I believe brought on by the general mechanics of the game vs. today's game.. You talk about problem in EQ1 but totally ignore the more important flaws in today's genre.. Atleast more important to me.. IN EQ1, we were allowed up to 6 in a group.. BUT there were times where you needed MORE then 6 to accomplish a task.. Did that stop us.. NO.. because Nothing that I recall had limits to loot.. Today's games restrict the LOOT to the KILLING group ONLY.. NO exceptions.. Tie this in with instancing it it sucks.. In WoW I found it completely UNSOCIAL to have 10 guildies or friends on to go after something.. and if something dropped, NO worries.. In EQ just invite to group, or wait till the lock times out and ANYONE can loot it.. There were many of times a quest item, such as corrupt stone dropped by a random kill and someone YELLED it, so the right people that need it , got it.. I hated doing dungeons in WoW when you had more then 6 friends logged on, going after multiple loots.. and guess what? Instead of the Uber Mage piece dropping (which we had a mage in the group), the Uber Hunter piece dropped, which didnt' get a chance to group because of the restrictions.. SO that items rotted to a vendor or was DE'd....... That is NOT good game design..

Raid limits, loot limits, quest limits.. Today's MMO are nothing but limits and restrictions.. From the starting point to the finishing line.. IMO

I still dont understand what youre lecturing me about, someone said people didnt get blacklisted in eq1, i said that they definately did on my server.

And yeah people are jerks and theres jerks in every game. but if you think different games dont have different kinds of communities then youre greatly mistaken.

Love this discussion, both sides... Enjoying the new game, but it's not the feeling I had playing DAoC, dang I miss that kinda fun!

TY Mall.. Infact many of the prominent guild leaders often went to convensions and had the pleasure of meeting many of the GM's in EQ1...... LORD I miss GM's.. If we didn't police the problem players, the GM's sure did and quickly.. The one gent I play with now since my WoW days was an EQ GM for a year.. Great guy with some wicked stories.. lol If you got a bad rep on EQ1 and word of mouth got around, good luck finding a group or guild.. Either reroll on a different server, or plead guilty and take your punishment.. LOL There was no cross server LFG tool to save your bad behavior, or pay for a name change.. or transfer.. I've been NINJA looted more times in WoW RIFT and TOR then EQ easily.. It's not even a close call..

This game isn't going to be rebuilt from the ground up into a sandbox quest-lite game with 50-player moshpits, so I don't get the point of this thread being here.

Yeah i knew alot of the GM's. I finished the first epic weapon on any server and when we were on the last step to kill the final boss for Ragebringer (the rogue epic) in kithicor forest 4 or 5 devs showed up playing characters from the epic quest line, we had 125 people from every guild on the server (and we still whiped a few times) and the devs were turning the sky orange and making lightning flash and putting out zone wide emotes during the whole event.

Was truely the coolest thing i have ever seen in any game. and those Devs really loved their game.

Almost everything you mentioned was to stop people who didn't EARN an item from GETTING said item. Which goes hand in hand with Better Encounter tuning so that you Don't need more than the designed number of players to accomplish something. Lady Vox too hard? Throw more players at it. Bonethrasher too hard? Get better at playing.

Something drop that no one can use in an EQ Raid? Well, crap, vendor it and wait until the next server reset for the respawn, and hold another guild doesn't get there first. Something drop that no one can use in SWTOR? (less chance of that now after the item drop patch - still happens, but it's rarer) Well, dissemble it, and wait 5 days (at most, and only for Operations.) Also, you don't need 40 people to get it, only a little more or less than a dozen.

Another raid group forming to take out the Sleepers in EQ? Better hurry before they drop them for the week. Another raid group forming in SWTOR to hit the same Operation as you? Who cares? They have their own instance. Don't like each other in EQ? train trash mobs on their healers as they pull the dragon. Wipe the raid, and kill the boss yourself as they recover. In SWTOR? Put them on ignore.

It's not bad game design. It's deliberate, measured, game design. You just don't agree with it. Which is fine. But that doesn't make it bad. Its designed to be less of a job and lifestyle, and more of a Game. You miss the lifestyle? Well, sorry, not much I can do about that. But that doesn't make this game bad. Just different. And yes, it was a lifestyle. The minute I got a telephone call while my wife was in the hospital having an emergency c-section that we were being pulled from the raid roster for 'unscheduled absence' it was a lifestyle, not a game. Had a bad guild you say, I'm not the only one with that experience. Ask around, find out how many people had guild troubles over missing raids due to real life problems. It was a lifestyle. And it had to be, because if we didn't get there first, someone else would, and we'd miss our chance for the week.

You say all new games are like this? 'Easy and limiting'? Well, maybe that tells you something about what most of us think about that old lifestyle.

lol this game is going to go to the wow direction if it wants to survive, anyone thinking that it will the direction of eq at all is delusional.

But i dont know why it bothers you so much, we are just chatting about the way games used to be not beating up your grandma.

I so miss the GM run events, now that you brought that up.. Some of those were epic.. I miss the day night cycle too.. Remember Kith Forest at night? ha ha ha.. Even with my 58 druid at the time, I did NOT like running the zone edges from Misty to Highpass.. lol