Subs down 25%

The problem is Their not listening to the subscriber base... They screamed for transfers, end game content, and leader boards for PvP...

Each time these issues have been thrown onto the back burner... Instead I got a Legacy Update that treats this game more like the Sims then an MMO (They even hint and encourage to gain every crafting skill so you can trade between your alts) Whats the purpose of crafting if your going to make it irrelevant six months down the road?

Then they decimate the server populations by allowing the Asian Transfers yet they don't do anything to address the local populations needs...

The PvP endgame content is a joke... Close illum, Create a Grinding system for gear, and no leader boards. I would rather gain and grind gear through PvE and use it in PvP then grind for 40+ war zones to get a light saber.

I really think the people that are developing the content for this game are not the people playing this game... And the people that are developing this game would rather play it safe then be innovative, and create something exciting... next update "Allies and Legacy" make me think that this game is becoming more of a family starwars simulation then an epic MMO

Which is very likely being culled here in about a month.

Your serious right? That doesn't not make any sense unless it was on 1 server

And WoW recently lost 1.5 million subs, and no one's trying to put a "spin" on that or claiming the sky is falling there. Well, not believably anyway, hehe.

Pretty much, though by dating the snapshot, you know exactly when it was snapped. So if they snap at end of April, you know it was accurate about a week ago. Most companies snap every month end, to use for their own internal financial forecasting (revenue recognition actuals-2-forecast). Then selectively they may share one of those snapshots with the public from time to time (or not, it's up to them). They are never going to give you enough info to project an actual trend though. Besides MMO subs ebb and flow these days (with the exception of EVE which seems to follow a slow meandering move up and to the right on the charts at MMOData).

No, Westward Journey and Zeng TU have more.

And its rumored that LOTRO has over 1.5 million players.

Frankly I dont trust that site because it doesnt have the numbers for F2P games at all.

Heck World of Tanks has more players then SWTOR if you want to get technical.

Server merger is what is needed. That is all. Republic is dying fast because while I am sitting in a 40 minute que (most likely to loose) the Imps are playing round after round and building gear.

Yeah, WoW peaked shortly after Lich King. and Cataclysm. it doesn't steadily grow anymore, it's falling off. But it took 4 years for WoW to Peak, it was a steady climb until then. Of course its peak was 10x higher than most other MMO's.

It was one of the last MMO's to show that growth pattern of steady growth over a long period of time before it peaked. You look at subscriber rates for Lineage, Lineage II, Everquest, EVE, etc, you see this steady climb for years as they gradually gain new subscribers.

Then you look at post WoW MMO's, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Rift, SW:TOR, and you see this sharp peak right after launch, and then a sharp drop off a few months later. The game never goes higher in subscriptions with the exception of LotRO and DDO which gained more subscribers right after going free to play, but it was like a second launch, a sharp peak, followed by dropping off again. No climb.

I don't expect MMO's to grow in subscriber bases as time goes on these days. I'm expecting the same result from TERA and the Secret World.

Guild Wars 2 is an amazing game but that's not going to push its numbers in the several millions, its saving grace is going to be that it doesn't rely on subscriptions from the getgo, but if we were to look at active accounts rather than subscribers you'd see a similar pattern, spikes of activity after launch and every expansion, with population dropping off as time goes on.

That's why I don't see the blind optimism people have thinking this game is going to grow. It's not, not under the current business model, not in this market. Subscription rates aren't going to grow, the rate at which they fall off may slow down, and it'll plateau, but it's not going to get wildly more popular with the current direction.

Changing the business model, or releasing a new expansion will spike popularity briefly again. But it'll never grow.

Farmville has over 80 million players... means it is more than 8x as good as WoW

yeah because free transfers are really going to fix it right? i guess if your on the select few servers the community speaks so fondly of,but not everyone is