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Enrage Timers Need to be Changed or Removed


Raeln's Avatar


Raeln
05.07.2012 , 09:57 AM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by Codek View Post
I'm not sure what fight your running but there is never a moment that I recall where my guild has ever considered a death to a DPS as an insta-wipe. There must be something else your raid is missing when it comes to improving damage output. We are talking a matter of 20-40k damage lost on a boss that has 900K health. A healer can add that much damage over the course of a fight if they a focused enough. And that's assuming it takes 20 seconds to get the DPS back up (should be more like 10 seconds).
Battle rez can't always be immediately cast on the person that died - especially during AoE phases. It is possible that a downed DPS (or healer for that matter) may have to stay down for 30 to 40 seconds. In an 8-man, that's a chunk of DPS lost - certainly more than 40k. Battle rezzed folks also start with a low amount of resource, which means they cannot just go full tilt to get their debuffs back up and get back into rotation. They also may not immediately get all the class buffs back immediately either - though there is really no reason for a serious raider to not be able to provide the 4 buffs by themselves.

This is a really silly tangent to be on - hard enrages on progression content have a tendency to minimize the benefit of having battle rez in the first place. I'm sure you'll argue against that though. Just keep in mind that every single guild out there that cares to do this type of content is not "pro" 100% efficient. That is something that Bioware needs to remember as well.

Just remember that enrage timers mean very little for guilds that have close to or already have the best gear.

Rexaren's Avatar


Rexaren
05.07.2012 , 10:29 AM | #72
They should add phased fights like Al'akir where there's soft enrages or hard enrages per phase. Linear fights are just boring. Before EC, you could go into a raid with the mantra "Don't stand in stuff and interrupt" and you would win. It looks like they might be moving toward a more complex raid pattern, though, which is good for the game.

ElitehunterDS's Avatar


ElitehunterDS
05.07.2012 , 10:49 AM | #73
enrage is fine.
Retiring from SWTOR August 2013

Sev'ra Level 55 Sith Assassin {Deception spec}
Tempest (Prophecy of the Five)

Jtbaker's Avatar


Jtbaker
05.07.2012 , 11:27 AM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by ElitehunterDS View Post
enrage is fine.
Very constructive.


Here is the issue with enrage timers. Personally, I am okay with a hard enrage to a point. However, turning a fight into "beat the enrage or die" is lazy. It simplifies the encounter by turning the entire event into fighting the enrage timer instead of the encounter itself. The majority of the videos that are on the web show guilds hitting the enrage timer in HM EC. This is a pattern that should not be happening. Using EC as an example, there are only 4 bosses. Having the first 2 bosses with strict enrage timers ruins the point of getting a chance to gear up or "farm" some of the content before you hit those "dps check" bosses. This leaves you no chance outside of Rakata and whatever Black Hole you obtain to achieve more gear. So at the end of the day, your first impression of HM EC turns into fighting an enrage timer and not the joy of fighting a boss itself and strategizing the mechanics.

Some will argue that a hard enrage is so guilds don't stack healers. Well my friends, in an 8 man raid if you take away 25% of the dps (ie 3 healers instead of 2) you will notice a substantial dps loss. With 25% of your main source of dps missing it's understandable to run into an enrage timer. But it'd take you what, another 1 or 1.5 minutes to sustain enough dps to kill an 8 man HM boss if you're minus 25% of your dps? What it comes down to is fighting the mechanics of the fight, not the enrage timer. There is absolutely no harm in adding another 15 - 30 seconds on each hard enrage timer. This still accomplishes a goal of preventing guilds from stacking healers while at the same time you won't be seeing a hard enrage near the end of every fight even though it was executed perfectly. That's how a proper encounter should be. If there is still an argument on that, then BW should reconsider soft enrages. However, as it stands right now this game turns into "You vs. Enrage Timer". Not "You vs. Mechanics" as it should be.

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
05.07.2012 , 12:38 PM | #75
I guess the question for enrage boils down to this: should losing anybody results in a wipe for your raid? Because that's what a tightly tuned enrage timer is. And if so, why even give false hope? Why not just have everyone instantly die the moment anybody died? And honestly, learning mechanisms isn't that hard. It's the execution that is hard and if an encounter demands perfection, then why not just flat out put that as a requirement and not waste everyone's time?

I'm not sure why people have just come to accept infinite resources = no problem in MMORPG. In virtually every RPG I have played, you have some resources that eventually run out. Even if you take a game like Final Fantasy, you can have at most 99 Megaelixirs and so on so in theory, it is possible to design a fight that makes you run out of even those. Yet for MMORPG the resources is indeed infinite and only fatigue can defeat this. In a world without enrage and without fatigue, all encounters would be beatable by grinding it out, and you won't even need to always resort to healer heavy wimp out methods. That is, most encounters as is can probably all be beaten with 2 healers out of 8 every single time if there is no enrage timer and there is no fatigue factor (i.e. people are more increasingly likely to screw up mechanics as time passes). How is that even a good design?

Elear's Avatar


Elear
05.07.2012 , 01:21 PM | #76
Enrages are fine, thanks to them DPS also can have fights where they have to give it all they've got.
Without enrage, all you have to do is use your skills and not die. You got yourself into energy starvation? Oh well, stand back, try not to die, get back to fight when you're ready.
With enrage, DPS can't just sit back and enjoy the show. It doesn't matter that there are 3 other people that could cover for him, because every bit counts

ekwalizer's Avatar


ekwalizer
05.07.2012 , 04:47 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by HellFlame View Post
Of course its gonna be harder (not *hard*) if you got not so good gear and you try to start with D7, BoI, FE or Kaon. BT, BP and Foundry should be easy.
I actually find FE to be only slightly more difficult than BT. Did it the other day in 124 gear (mostly same across the group), on my healer (that I never play). For me the progression seems to go like this: BT, FE, BP, Fy, Kaon, D7, BoI, LI. BUt that's just me.
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