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Shadow's lacking Raid usefulness


Zottle's Avatar


Zottle
05.06.2012 , 04:47 AM | #1
I'm an Infiltration specced Shadow, #2 in DPS for my guild according to parses. I just got swapped out of my regular raiding team because the guild realised I didn't bring anything to a raid beyond DPS.

I can understand why they did it -- the guild's been struggling with hard mode EC and we need every buff and debuff we can. But my fellow DPSers bring more than I do:
  • Sentinels - Inspiration (+dmg/healing raid buff), Passive raid heals, Armour debuff on the boss
  • Gunslinger - Scrambling field (raid damage shield)
  • Commando/Sage - Off heals, dispels, combat rez, combat CC

Neither of my DPS trees can compete. I previously had use as a very temporary tank in other raids (eg. repositioning Soa under a pyramid if the tank gets mind trapped). Force valour can be applied by other people in the raid, and will progressively become less useful as more people get level 50 consulars in their legacies. Mind Maze has no use in combat. My control abilities (stun, low slash, slow etc) are fairly well mirrored across the dps classes.

What can I do to compete? I'm leveling up a gunslinger for now.

(cross posted because I realised this is a better place for discussion of the topic)

GeckoOBac's Avatar


GeckoOBac
05.06.2012 , 04:59 AM | #2
Second in DPS in a dps slot and the raid is swapping you out? Seems like the problem is in your guild more than in the class.

Zottle's Avatar


Zottle
05.06.2012 , 05:05 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by GeckoOBac View Post
Second in DPS in a dps slot and the raid is swapping you out? Seems like the problem is in your guild more than in the class.
Fair point, but it doesn't change anything. All else equal, why take a shadow aside from loot composition :<

Geryboy's Avatar


Geryboy
05.06.2012 , 06:16 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Zottle View Post
Fair point, but it doesn't change anything. All else equal, why take a shadow aside from loot composition :<
well the sentinell has alot of usefullness however you don't need cc, debuff, or combat rezz that often. You don't have to CC anything during EC boss encounters. Combat rezz hast a cd on the whole group. And if your healers are to stupid to debuff 8 or 16 man then that's not your fault. Having good steady dps and a guy who can play well are far more important. You need some key classes in the raid, yes, however kicking you out of the raid just proves that your raid is too bad to clear the content in a normal fashion and needs all the extra help they can get, soon they will be at another point making no porgress and then they will be forced to learn how to play the game no mather who they swap out now. People always look for an easy way out but in the end they will still get stuck because they didn't learn the lesson in the first place.
Twinsnake Guardian / Payne Assassin / Cornhoolio OPerative ///// Jar'kai Sword

juleanden's Avatar


juleanden
05.06.2012 , 06:23 AM | #5
shadows makes trash alot faster since they can cc, they are allso very good CD tanks if tanks fails.
they are very viable still.

SvnStrSlm's Avatar


SvnStrSlm
05.06.2012 , 07:29 AM | #6
I would quit your guild. Those people are too stupid to play with and are the types of people that ruin games. I would like to see some more utility from our class on the debuff side. BUt the fact that you know you are number 2 and your guild is submitting parses is a bad situation all together. My guild is working on HM EC and we never use parses outside of our own sick pleasure. Guilds like yours make the game not fun.

GeckoOBac's Avatar


GeckoOBac
05.06.2012 , 08:05 AM | #7
Oh, besides... Want an utility for your shadow? Vanish + OOC ress. There,
(It does work, tried and used in NM modes.)

HeXeLz's Avatar


HeXeLz
05.06.2012 , 08:32 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Zottle View Post
I'm an Infiltration specced Shadow, #2 in DPS for my guild according to parses. I just got swapped out of my regular raiding team because the guild realised I didn't bring anything to a raid beyond DPS.

I can understand why they did it -- the guild's been struggling with hard mode EC and we need every buff and debuff we can. But my fellow DPSers bring more than I do:
  • Sentinels - Inspiration (+dmg/healing raid buff), Passive raid heals, Armour debuff on the boss
  • Gunslinger - Scrambling field (raid damage shield)
  • Commando/Sage - Off heals, dispels, combat rez, combat CC

Neither of my DPS trees can compete. I previously had use as a very temporary tank in other raids (eg. repositioning Soa under a pyramid if the tank gets mind trapped). Force valour can be applied by other people in the raid, and will progressively become less useful as more people get level 50 consulars in their legacies. Mind Maze has no use in combat. My control abilities (stun, low slash, slow etc) are fairly well mirrored across the dps classes.

What can I do to compete? I'm leveling up a gunslinger for now.

(cross posted because I realised this is a better place for discussion of the topic)
I our raid shadows are the top of the dps parse as balance spec, slightly above sentinels and gunslingers. BTW you misplaced a few descriptions there, gunslingers are the ones that reduce armor, not sentinels.

You can make the following argument to your guild about dps shadows:

- highest dps in game in balance spec, additional ninja rez, ability to grab and hold aggro in case the tank dies, extra taunt in case the tank needs to be topped off.

I honestly don't understand why you've been replaced in your raid, shadows are best dps tank classes in game with more group utility than dps commandos or guardians.
HeXeL
<LD50>

Jinxblog's Avatar


Jinxblog
05.06.2012 , 08:58 AM | #9
Pfft. Shadows are amazing. If your guild can't down a boss with any (reasonable) group composition, then they have a long ways to go. We run with a Gunslinger and he rarely pops his bubble so any "buffs" he brings to the raid is minimal.

If your struggling to get included as a Shadow DPS, you could try tanking. They are quite amazing.
No flames are necessary, you are already roasting in the fires of your own stupidity.

KBSIP's Avatar


KBSIP
05.06.2012 , 10:11 AM | #10
shadows add a SECOND combat rez and also get a second use of their medpacs by stealthing to drop combat.