Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Gear customization and management


Deewe's Avatar


Deewe
05.05.2012 , 11:48 AM | #1
As now we have the "unify" and mods system mechanics. While very nice how about improving the gear customization and so our characters and companions look?


In short:
  1. Appearance tabs
  2. Gear slots toggles
  3. Differentiate left from right slots
  4. Gear dyes
  5. Wardrobes
  6. Companions customization== Characters customization
  7. UI / Hot keys
  8. Keep mods & unify systems

The mod system while being really interesting, as allowing players to wear mostly any gear piece and keep looking for better mods, is hindered by some flaws.
The first one being it's far from convenient to manage mods. Transferring mods between items needs too many clicks and inventory room. Then, apart in the space ship, a player needs to summon the companion(s) he wishes to manage the gear one after the other.
The second one being there's no way to actually know if a mod will improve any companion gear without actually summoning them or going through all of them in the space ship. Also tracking mods between alts is more like a second job and requires an external spreadsheet.
The third one and not the least is that when a players acquires a new item and wishes to benefit from the stats or the look, he'll have to do some work to actually upgrade his character without loosing either stats or hindering his character look.
The fourth one being there's no way to easily keep sets of equipment and switch them at once. Not only it would requires either mods farming or mods switching but it also takes lots of room to keep the sets in the player inventory, even more if you consider dressing up your companions.

Apart the mod system as players are obliged to display all the gear items for their characters and companions, we pretty much ends looking all alike. The unify feature even enhancing this as characters wears mostly all the same chest pieces.

Another issue is there's no convenient way to toggle head slots nor equip companions with gear.
In the first one you have to open a UI window to toggle the character head slot and there's none for the companions. In the second one you have to open the character doll then the select the companion one.


........So how to make gear management more convenient and why not even better than say other games like Lotro?

Adding an Appearance-tab system but not as replacement but as a topping of the mod system, which is an incentive to max out the gear looking after the needed mods.
- Make it both for characters and companions alike.
- Allow characters to set presets (wardrobes)
- Do not require players to have the "look" sets in their inventory to be able switch them


Improve the UI
- Let players assign key bindings to each stored preset gears sets
- Let players either: hide slot, show "stats" item, show "look" item (more below)*.
- Especially for the head slot, options to show|hide hood and/or show|hide helmet (even for the companions)
- Have the toggle check boxes next to the gear slots
- Hot key binding to toggle the character head slot
- Hot key binding to toggle the companion head slot (let players assign the same key binding as the character head slot, would they want it so)
- [modifier_key] + [open_inventory] = open companion doll
- [modifier_key] + right click = equip item to companion
- [modifier_key] + mouse over an item = display the comparison tooltip for all companions
- [modifier_key] + mouse over a mod = display all equipped similar mods (if open a companion doll then display the companion mods)
- Right click on a reward/loot window = equip to character without going to the inventory
- Allow players to open more than one orange item edit window at once and transfer mods between them with a popup/check box to automatically drop replaced mods in the inventory.
- Allow players to inspect their characters alts and companions alts (better = equip them directly)
- Preview weapons
- Zoom in/out pan camera in preview doll
- Resize preview doll frame on the fly

*Allowing players to hide specific gear slots (all but pants for obvious reasons) will make players look more unique, still there's way to make it even better than what's being done in the bests MMO: distinguish left and right slots for hands, bracers, feet slots.
Before delving more into that let me point at an issue with TOR gear: back and shoulder slots are tied to the chest pieces. As such these slots needs to be implemented. You'd want to start with the new gear then piece after piece separate cloaks, backpacks and shoulder pads from the chest pieces.
For example, with the above a player would be able to hide a left hand glove, display the "stats" item for a left shoulder pad, display the "look" for the right shoulder pad, have a heavy armor on the left leg and a cloth one on the right one and hide a cloak or "replace it" with anther or say a backpack.

Going forward, adding the unify feature to companions gear would make their look more coherent still the twins syndrome lurks around. Sot it's only a first a step. As such adding gear dyes would help a lot. Now a good gear dye system goes more along a 2+ separate dyeable zones per gear than a hue mask. In short Guild Wars 2 vs LotRo.


All in all, keeping the best of all systems and trying to tie them in a more convenient way thus giving more choices to the players without asking them anymore to choose between the stats or the look

Thoughts?


P.S.: [Legacy in 1.3] & beyond: compendium

HeavensAgent's Avatar


HeavensAgent
05.05.2012 , 12:05 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Deewe View Post
Thoughts?
Primarily that you should use the Search function and do research on a topic before making a new suggestion thread. Additionally that there is absolutely no reason that an appearance slot system should be added to the game. Also, dye systems have never worked properly and anything beyond what we have available now will not serve to improve anything.

You appear to lack an understanding of MMORPG design practices, and some of your ideas are functionally impossible. You should probably do some research into that as well.

Deewe's Avatar


Deewe
05.05.2012 , 04:49 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by HeavensAgent View Post
**snip** some of your ideas are functionally impossible. You should probably do some research into that as well.
Always interested in crossing a game designer's path, so could you please point me at what's impossible?

livnthedream's Avatar


livnthedream
05.05.2012 , 05:09 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Deewe View Post
[*]Appearance tabs[*]Gear slots toggles[*]Differentiate left from right slots[*]Gear dyes[*]Wardrobes[*]Companions == Characters[*]UI / Hot key[*]Keep mods & unify systems
appearance tabs would completely destroy the current crafting markets for synthweavers and armormechs.

gear slot toggles are not ok. keeping full stats and running around naked isnt cool, and actually ruins the gameplay for me. and you know people will do it. its one of the reasons why i rarely play rift now. even with how amazing infernal dawn was the changes they keep making keep alienating me from the game.

gear dyes dont work. especially with how the existing gear is textured. texture changes shade regardless of it its the same color or not. every game that doesnt have gear specifically designed for this has had this issue. black especially being grey because of texture is REALLY annoying.

wardrobes i dont like. im all for collecting gear sets, and even different looks. im not to happy about switching them at whim. leading into your point about everyone looking the "same", i can tell many players just by look. i know that all of my toons look nothing like the majority of the playerbase, and i pay attention cause im always looking for different armor to match my goal of character design. especially for companions.

^^ as above, companions arent players. i do agree that we need more customization, especially things like match to chest,, hide head slot, even having pc classes added to them so we can give them more varying types of gear (jaesa really wants to wear a set of dark acolyte gear) but they arent players. they shouldnt have the full range of options that players do, otherwise we should just drop what we currently have and go completely with design your own companion.

also, your whines about the mod system are funny. while keeping companion gear up to date is important, actually maximizing the stats in the same way you min/max your own is pretty futile. they dont gain the same amount from it that players do anyway. simply only equipping them with well itemized mods in the first place will get you very very far. the amount of difference between a well itemized 126, and a poorly itemized 140 for a companion is pretty even. no need for spreadsheets, no need to stress over it.

ps, beat the dead horse more. as heaven stated, MANY threads, and lots of reasons (many of which i touched on) as to why the majority of your ideas are poor ones, and things that shouldnt be implemented.

DarthRavillen's Avatar


DarthRavillen
05.05.2012 , 06:39 PM | #5
Honestly I'm fine with the way the system is now, the only thing I wish for is the ability to dye, or change the primary and secondary color of the main body armor, which would effect the rest of the gear. The rest I don't think is needed in the game.

Deewe's Avatar


Deewe
05.05.2012 , 06:48 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by livnthedream View Post
appearance tabs would completely destroy the current crafting markets for synthweavers and armormechs.
Nope it would not because players would be looking for gear both for stats and the look. It'll also make non orange crafted gear looked after too.

Quote: Originally Posted by livnthedream View Post
gear slot toggles are not ok. keeping full stats and running around naked isnt cool, and actually ruins the gameplay for me. and you know people will do it. its one of the reasons why i rarely play rift now. even with how amazing infernal dawn was the changes they keep making keep alienating me from the game.
That's a very valid reason. Few points however. First it's a matter of choices. While some like you find this annoying others find this fun = IMHO a tie.
In case you think it's not realistic gear isn't supposed to be realistic and well a cloth equipped character could be in fact using a (for example) very powerful Personal Shield Generator or be so attuned with the force that he's avoiding the blows.
Then, I do play Rift too and I seldom see naked players running around. Maybe that's on your server.

Quote: Originally Posted by livnthedream View Post
gear dyes dont work. especially with how the existing gear is textured. texture changes shade regardless of it its the same color or not. every game that doesnt have gear specifically designed for this has had this issue. black especially being grey because of texture is REALLY annoying.
It's more about working on alpha layers than meshes. While each item might need to have new and separate alpha layers created for each items it doesn't mean it's impossible at all.

Quote: Originally Posted by livnthedream View Post
wardrobes i dont like. im all for collecting gear sets, and even different looks. im not to happy about switching them at whim. leading into your point about everyone looking the "same", i can tell many players just by look. i know that all of my toons look nothing like the majority of the playerbase, and i pay attention cause im always looking for different armor to match my goal of character design. especially for companions.
Not sure I understood you well. Do you mean you don't like wardrobe because you don't want it to be easy to look cool or different?

Quote: Originally Posted by livnthedream View Post
^^ as above, companions arent players. i do agree that we need more customization, especially things like match to chest,, hide head slot, even having pc classes added to them so we can give them more varying types of gear (jaesa really wants to wear a set of dark acolyte gear) but they arent players. they shouldnt have the full range of options that players do, otherwise we should just drop what we currently have and go completely with design your own companion.
I do respect your opinion but allow me to disagree. Players should have the option to customize their companions and while not the right topic I'd go further saying some of us want to even change our companion body features.

Quote: Originally Posted by livnthedream View Post
also, your whines about the mod system are funny. while keeping companion gear up to date is important, actually maximizing the stats in the same way you min/max your own is pretty futile. they dont gain the same amount from it that players do anyway. simply only equipping them with well itemized mods in the first place will get you very very far. the amount of difference between a well itemized 126, and a poorly itemized 140 for a companion is pretty even. no need for spreadsheets, no need to stress over it.
While you aren't a min/max type of player not everyone plays like you and managing mods between companions and alts is tedious, at best.

livnthedream's Avatar


livnthedream
05.05.2012 , 07:49 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Deewe View Post
Nope it would not because players would be looking for gear both for stats and the look. It'll also make non orange crafted gear looked after too.
not really. besides the fact that it completely destroys the orange design, because they wouldnt be needed anymore, it also entirely devalues the actual look of the crafted gear as most of them are available in other places. right now i can currently fill niches for orange gear that is hard/impossible to find in an orange form, but can be found at random levels with greens/blues. this completely takes ALL of those niches away. the amount of profit able to be generated from those tradeskills would be next to nil, since the only real market left would be augs, which you can quickly and easily buy 5 of and never need another.

Quote:
That's a very valid reason. Few points however. First it's a matter of choices. While some like you find this annoying others find this fun = IMHO a tie.
In case you think it's not realistic gear isn't supposed to be realistic and well a cloth equipped character could be in fact using a (for example) very powerful Personal Shield Generator or be so attuned with the force that he's avoiding the blows.
Then, I do play Rift too and I seldom see naked players running around. Maybe that's on your server.
perhaps it is. either way those are VERY thin excuses to try an pull off that kind of spectacle. there are lines, and some are finer than others, of what is acceptable in terms of gearing and believable immersion. the bikini already breaks that as it is and its getting worse, which is a major con, not a betterment. more freedom is not always a good thing, especially when the playerbase cant, or doesnt, use it effectively nor responsibly.

Quote:
It's more about working on alpha layers than meshes. While each item might need to have new and separate alpha layers created for each items it doesn't mean it's impossible at all.
either way its a stupid amount of work when they have already put the controls for it in place with the current and future design. dye systems almost always go too far. hot pink jedi robes and neon green sith armor doesnt fly no matter how much you want it. it crosses the line both aesthetically, and believably. they are already working on different color schemes, and have made the current color changer for actually matching outfits to decrease this. i like the system, and most of the gear options currently in game.

Quote:
Not sure I understood you well. Do you mean you don't like wardrobe because you don't want it to be easy to look cool or different?
no, because i can do both of what you said in game right now. i havent seen anyone else who looks like my sorcerer or jugg running around. as i said i DO pay attention to other fashion. i dont like wardrobe because you shouldnt have the ability to switch look on a whim. much like spec looks matter. whether its a losing battle or not i will continue to fight for this simply because it lies at the heart of character identity. the statement "the clothes make the man" is much more true for impressions and attitude than many are willing to admit, and its something that should be held to ingame.

[quote]I do respect your opinion but allow me to disagree. Players should have the option to customize their companions and while not the right topic I'd go further saying some of us want to even change our companion body features.[/quote}

the problem with what you want is they are not your characters, they are biowares. they are a complete npc that bioware has graciously given you a bit of control over to make it a bit more palatable if you dont care for it. as it is, the argument could be made that they have already given us too much control over our companions, with the ability to change race aswell as armor.

Quote:
While you aren't a min/max type of player not everyone plays like you and managing mods between companions and alts is tedious, at best.
except that little fact that YOU are the one making it tedious. its a choice you have actively made that has no actual backing in reality. the math behind it does not support your playstyle at all. why should bioware go out of its way, and spend a ton of dev time "fixing" something that isnt an issue for most because there is no point in doing it. it doesnt really increase performance, it doesnt add to the story.

Deewe's Avatar


Deewe
05.06.2012 , 08:52 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by livnthedream View Post
not really. besides the fact that it completely destroys the orange design, because they wouldnt be needed anymore, it also entirely devalues the actual look of the crafted gear as most of them are available in other places. right now i can currently fill niches for orange gear that is hard/impossible to find in an orange form, but can be found at random levels with greens/blues. this completely takes ALL of those niches away. the amount of profit able to be generated from those tradeskills would be next to nil, since the only real market left would be augs, which you can quickly and easily buy 5 of and never need another.
Orange gear would still be needed as players will require gear with slots.
Then if you keep the appearance tab out of the PvP, as requested by many gankers, you'll still need the orange gear that much. Finally even if you have lots of number of wardrobes you still have the stats gear and from experience players also try to have a good looking stats gear as it's one more cool set to display.
Finally with A-Tab you'll sell more various gear pieces as because players will be able to switch them easily they'll be more inclined to buy gear for the look only. So you are right you are loosing a niche market but gaining a whole new and bigger market.
The difference being you'll still look cool while leveling.

Quote: Originally Posted by livnthedream View Post
perhaps it is. either way those are VERY thin excuses to try an pull off that kind of spectacle. there are lines, and some are finer than others, of what is acceptable in terms of gearing and believable immersion. the bikini already breaks that as it is and its getting worse, which is a major con, not a betterment. more freedom is not always a good thing, especially when the playerbase cant, or doesnt, use it effectively nor responsibly.
Seems to me you missed the part where I mentioned no hide pants slots.

Quote: Originally Posted by livnthedream View Post
either way its a stupid amount of work when they have already put the controls for it in place with the current and future design. dye systems almost always go too far. hot pink jedi robes and neon green sith armor doesnt fly no matter how much you want it. it crosses the line both aesthetically, and believably. they are already working on different color schemes, and have made the current color changer for actually matching outfits to decrease this. i like the system, and most of the gear options currently in game.
Your argument is about neon and pink colors, we both know they can implement gear dyes without too flashy colors and IMHO flashy colors could make the game more vibrant.

Then stupid or not we aren't the ones to judge whether the amount of work is too big. If enough players ask for it and it's identified there will be a good ROI on that, especially since the competitors have that BioWare will want to implement it at some point.

Quote: Originally Posted by livnthedream View Post
no, because i can do both of what you said in game right now. i havent seen anyone else who looks like my sorcerer or jugg running around. as i said i DO pay attention to other fashion. i dont like wardrobe because you shouldnt have the ability to switch look on a whim. much like spec looks matter. whether its a losing battle or not i will continue to fight for this simply because it lies at the heart of character identity. the statement "the clothes make the man" is much more true for impressions and attitude than many are willing to admit, and its something that should be held to ingame.
I'm sorry but it's a game not a second job. As a player I'm not looking forward having to carry and switch dozens of items to be able to look cool depending on the mood or the situation.

And contrary to what Blizzard devs said: managing a character inventory isn't a fun process nor a good game mechanic.

Quote: Originally Posted by livnthedream View Post
the problem with what you want is they are not your characters, they are biowares. they are a complete npc that bioware has graciously given you a bit of control over to make it a bit more palatable if you dont care for it. as it is, the argument could be made that they have already given us too much control over our companions, with the ability to change race aswell as armor.
Would this a Single Player RPG you would be right. However you're missing one major issue here, this is an MMO. We are all wandering around with companions clones and whatever the story background it makes no sense to see dozens of (for example) Mako clones walking around. Allowing species changes and even adding nicknames to the companions would mitigate the issue.

Quote: Originally Posted by livnthedream View Post
except that little fact that YOU are the one making it tedious. its a choice you have actively made that has no actual backing in reality. the math behind it does not support your playstyle at all. why should bioware go out of its way, and spend a ton of dev time "fixing" something that isnt an issue for most because there is no point in doing it. it doesnt really increase performance, it doesnt add to the story.
Your stance doesn't hold for alts and even for companions a +1 is still a +1.


I invite you to look at this:

Quote: Originally Posted by illgot View Post
With 4 level 50s and 4 alts I was trying to level I have decided to give up on TOR.

Here is what happens as I level.

at level 35 to level 49 I develop my characters look and I love it. At 50 I start getting sets and have 2 choices.


Choice 1 RETAIN MY APPEARANCE

- Pull the old mods out and give them to my companion (high cost)
- Pull new mods out and put them in my orange gear (higher cost)
- Lose the set bonuses but at least retain my appearance


Choice 2 LOSE MY APPEARANCE

- Wear what drops but hate how my character appears

Choice 1 is very expensive and I lose the set bonuses. I have to do this through 2 sets of PvP gear and 2-3 sets of PvE gear before I can transfer my mods one final time and retain my set bonuses (War Hero / Blackhole sets).

Each time I get a better item I remove the old mod out of my orange gear, give it to my companion, then remove the mod out of the new item and put it into my personal orange appearance gear. Basically transferring each mod twice every time I upgrade. This is extremely expensive and I do not even get to keep the set bonus.

Choice 2, I just wear what drops and hate looking at my character. But at least I save a lot of money and retain my set bonuses.


It is a lose lose situation for me since the appearance of my character drives me but I refuse to take the hit in stats or lose my set bonus. My only choice is to move to the next character and hope Bioware fixes these issues.

I am tired of waiting and now know they have just written off transferring the set bonuses for pre 1.2 gear.

As much as I wanted to enjoy TOR, I just can't bring myself to keep leveling alts knowing that once I hit 50 I'm going to hate my characters.

APNTerra's Avatar


APNTerra
05.09.2012 , 07:40 PM | #9
/Bump This type of thing will make me re-sub
Tauris | Xatnis
Subscriber since Dec 2011.

livnthedream's Avatar


livnthedream
05.09.2012 , 09:15 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Deewe View Post
Orange gear would still be needed as players will require gear with slots.
Then if you keep the appearance tab out of the PvP, as requested by many gankers, you'll still need the orange gear that much. Finally even if you have lots of number of wardrobes you still have the stats gear and from experience players also try to have a good looking stats gear as it's one more cool set to display.
Finally with A-Tab you'll sell more various gear pieces as because players will be able to switch them easily they'll be more inclined to buy gear for the look only. So you are right you are loosing a niche market but gaining a whole new and bigger market.
The difference being you'll still look cool while leveling.
except it wont. you wont actually gain any market share because now you have to compete with actual greens and such. if the looks were crafted only, or additional tiers changes colors, or added things to appearance, you would be correct but they dont. oranges would only sell based almost entirely on the cheapest ones that can be made, with the cheapest green being used to cover it through your appearance slot.


Quote:
Seems to me you missed the part where I mentioned no hide pants slots.
but i wanna run around in SHORTS! GIMME MY HOTPANTS. maybe you should be able to go far enough to say hide belts, because thats often the biggest "offender". even that is pretty arguable with how items and sets are designed.

Quote:
Your argument is about neon and pink colors, we both know they can implement gear dyes without too flashy colors and IMHO flashy colors could make the game more vibrant.
yes, and as soon as they do (which wouldnt really work, dye never does without fine touches) it will be just like the lightsaber debate, with every color being toted as a requirement or they will unsub.

Quote:
Then stupid or not we aren't the ones to judge whether the amount of work is too big. If enough players ask for it and it's identified there will be a good ROI on that, especially since the competitors have that BioWare will want to implement it at some point.
actually, its only a good roi if they can prove that its something that kept subs. while i can agree that i would like to see more variety added in color schemes (something that they have already said they are doing) i dont want the ability for players to do what they will. it almost always gets abused far more than taken advantage of. in this case especially it doesnt take much for one person to blatently destroy the "immersion" that you are seeking. considering their stance on names, and how they are working on ways to be able to hide those completely if its something you find offensive, i dont see them adding something like this can be used in the same way names currently are.

Quote:
I'm sorry but it's a game not a second job. As a player I'm not looking forward having to carry and switch dozens of items to be able to look cool depending on the mood or the situation.And contrary to what Blizzard devs said: managing a character inventory isn't a fun process nor a good game mechanic.
really? so where exactly is the balance between "second job" and "game"? because i like those things that you say are work. i like keeping my bank, inventory, and crafting empire well organized. while you may not agree with blizzards data, attempting to state the data is false is a show of egomania. right now other, newer games, like the secret world are getting flack for things like being limited to 5 quests at a time in the quest log, and frankly, while inconvenient, it adds more to the game with feel than it detracts.

Quote:
Would this a Single Player RPG you would be right. However you're missing one major issue here, this is an MMO. We are all wandering around with companions clones and whatever the story background it makes no sense to see dozens of (for example) Mako clones walking around. Allowing species changes and even adding nicknames to the companions would mitigate the issue.
so seeing a ton of companions that look alike breaks immersion, but seeing a bounty hunter running around in hot pink hotpants is perfectly ok? seriously? you are perfectly correct, it is an mmo, which means there are certain things that will break either way, like every si being on the dark council, and every commando leading havoc squad. its impossible to clean that up. you can have 50,000 different armor skins, in every shade of the rainbow and still run into people that look like you, because thats what human beings do. they see a style and they copy it, or atleast imitate it. its known as fashion. your eternal hipsterism will never be satisfied in any public game. even ones like tsw, or wod (ie games where you can look however you please with large clothing options) you will never be happy.


Quote:
Your stance doesn't hold for alts and even for companions a +1 is still a +1.
I invite you to look at this:
there is min/max, and then there is min/max within reason. most players (even those that call themselves min/maxers) dont actually play at the level where min/max matters, or even actually makes a difference. the vast majority of the time you will see a larger gain from fixing rotation/spec/playstyle than from actually maximizing your available gear. every sim that determines stat weights does so assuming that you are playing either with a very set rotation, or within x percent of that rotation, since as rotation changes so do stat weights.

that being said, virtually every single one of illgot "the guy who knows nothing about star wars, yet claims to know things about mmos" issues has been addressed, especially going forward. even without that, knowing what the actual cost is in terms of output its generally worthwhile if looking good is that important to you since really, none of the set bonuses are large enough to actually matter in any pve content. aslong as you are playing at a solid level you can easily surpass all of the content, without those bonuses, all in gear you enjoy. i know, because i have been doing so for months.

Quote: Originally Posted by APNTerra View Post
/Bump This type of thing will make me re-sub
this is also utter bs considering the sheer amount of bioware hate you have been throwing in the earning report threads. while i can understand that you made a poor choice and bought a game that you really dont like, its not biowares fault even though you want to put it off on them.