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Dear Expertise, You Are Terrible

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Dear Expertise, You Are Terrible

Finnius's Avatar


Finnius
05.02.2012 , 06:01 PM | #211
Full time jobs don't leave much time for keeping up with forums, so I'm just going to address a couple of the points that have been brought up so far.

1. Why am I being insulting to the PVP players and calling them out on not wanting to fight on a slightly higher gear level rather than a massively overpowering gear level?
I'd hope the answer to that one lies in the question. As for why I choose to word it the way I do, it's because I'm tired of the PVP crowd slinging insults casually and not getting called on their ********.

2. But won't normalizing stats SOMEHOW unbalance everything else? Even if PVE gear has better set bonuses for PVE and PVP gear has better set bonuses for PVP?
How? Remember, expertise gear, while it has lower stats than PVE gear, also directly increases damage done and decreases damage taken from other players. It's almost like expertise acts as both primary damage stats and primary defense stats all at the same time. So just add those stats and do away with the middle man. The only difference is now all the gear is good in all the game.

3. But lol Bioware just wants to make money off forcing you to grind two sets of gear!
And that's fine, and it's their right as a company to do so. What it isn't is good business to do it in this manner. The more of your player base you can include in any given part of your game, the more vibrant your overall game will be. Long queue times and impossibly skewed matches don't make anyone want to play, which leads to burnout and subscription loss.

4. You're just dumb and bitter and must be a BADDIE!
And you must be an illiterate ****.

5. Are you Finnius from AoC?
No, but if he also talked sense, I'm glad we share a namesake. Never met the guy.

6. But what if X gear is easier to get than Y gear?! Won't the PVP players be screwed over?!
Have you ever seriously raided? Getting a specific piece of gear to drop can be like pulling teeth, but most raiders accept that. On the other hand, PVP gear is gained in a steady progression, win or lose. I don't hear many PVE players screaming that if a PVPer has gear and skill he should be disallowed from a raid. I do hear PVPers wailing that raiders should not be able to PVP, even if they have the same gear and skill. Seems like a double standard.

7. But what if PVPers start dominating end game PVE content?! Huh?! What then?!
If your PVP-centered gear that just happens to have the same stats as the PVE-centered gear but no set bonuses that are terribly well suited to PVE ends up getting you into more raids than a similarly geared guy in PVE gear, it's likely because you're a better raider than him. So good for you, more power to ya.

Now let's all try and be civil and hope that one day in the next ten years someone on the PVP design team will actually address how stupid an idea expertise is.

Happy-Killer's Avatar


Happy-Killer
05.02.2012 , 06:09 PM | #212
Guys relax, in 1.3 you'll be able to buy BM gear for dirt cheap and War Hero gear will only take you 2 days to grind out. This is BW's plan for a sustainable MMO. LOL

Osnodon's Avatar


Osnodon
05.02.2012 , 06:28 PM | #213
They use expertise because they don't want the guys in full heroic top tier raiding gear dominating. It happened in WoW and they wanted to avoid that here. If you had a full armor pen warrior with Shadowmourne he would never even consider stacking up resilence and its what they want to avoid. Its much easier to acquire pvp gear than it is to acquire top tier heroic pve gear. The idea of combining the two sets into just one set of epic gear is just silly and will never happen.

Pretty simple answer.

Finnius's Avatar


Finnius
05.02.2012 , 07:04 PM | #214
I am starting to believe that the PVP kids don't actually read and just twitch-repost the same arguments that have been addressed time and time and time again. Oh well, can't force people to learn to read.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
05.02.2012 , 07:17 PM | #215
Quote: Originally Posted by Finnius View Post
I am starting to believe that the PVP kids don't actually read and just twitch-repost the same arguments that have been addressed time and time and time again. Oh well, can't force people to learn to read.
Honestly, I hate to jump on a "trash-talk" band wagon, but I've got to agree. Over and over different ideas have been suggested, arguements refuted, etc... and there is a slew of reposted nonsense. Starting to think PvP'ers just think their special.

(Not @post quoted) I'm a pvp'er. I'm a pve'er. I am a gamer. I am not special, I do not need my own "special" pvp gear or "special" pve gear. And I'm the lazy one despite being willing to raid for pvp gear if needed? (Not advocating it, but don't call me lazy for not wanting two gear grinds if you are unwilling to raid for gear cause you "don't like it.")

Aussiedroid's Avatar


Aussiedroid
05.02.2012 , 07:20 PM | #216
Quote: Originally Posted by Finnius View Post
I am starting to believe that the PVP kids don't actually read and just twitch-repost the same arguments that have been addressed time and time and time again. Oh well, can't force people to learn to read.
I hear ya!

Its the way society is going, regrettably most cannot reason/discuss/consider different points of view and are unwilling to change their stance - they know what they know and everything else is wrong. Its the attitude that I am right and you are wrong .. there is no inbetween. Its sad really...

At the end of the day I just hope Bioware is not as black and white as responses from ignorant people in the forums and that constructive comments and suggestions are noted. We don't really need to convince the players, just Bioware that there is an issue.
... No, I'm not the droid your looking for!

Razot's Avatar


Razot
05.02.2012 , 07:45 PM | #217
Quote: Originally Posted by Aussiedroid View Post
I hear ya!

Its the way society is going, regrettably most cannot reason/discuss/consider different points of view and are unwilling to change their stance - they know what they know and everything else is wrong. Its the attitude that I am right and you are wrong .. there is no inbetween. Its sad really...

At the end of the day I just hope Bioware is not as black and white as responses from ignorant people in the forums and that constructive comments and suggestions are noted. We don't really need to convince the players, just Bioware that there is an issue.
Good post!

sulsakan's Avatar


sulsakan
05.03.2012 , 12:12 AM | #218
I only skimmed through this thread so maybe someone already brought up this point, but there is another huge problem with expertise...or more accurately, the need to wear one gear while pveing and another while pvping, is that it has a profound detrimental effect to true open world pvp... and the fact that BW even incorporated this gearing system is just one more of many examples that they do not really understand what true open world pvp is.

BW's idea of owpvp is isolating all level 50 pvpers on one world and there you go! Open World PVP! LOL TRUE owpvp should actually be called open universe pvp and then maybe the devs would understand it just a little bit better. TRUE owpvp is at its best when it is spontaneous, unplanned...where one minute your just doing some questing, ho-huming along thinking I'll just take it easy tonight and then you run into an overt player or 3, they kill you, you call some friends, you kill them, they call some friends....and 2 hours later your drenching in sweat and just had the funnest pvp in a long time. This was SWG at the beginning and towards the end.

The problem with TOR is that because you have to use one set of gear for pve and another for pvp...this sort of spontaneous combustion will never really happen. This whole push to isolate pvp into WZs (Ilium was just one big WZ IMHO) just shows that either BW doesnt understand pvp, or what they really wanted to build was a pve only mmo all along, but knew they had to add pvp if they wanted to be commercially viable, so they kind of added pvp as an almost separate game, with its own terrain, gear, sets of rules, etc. etc....but didnt really understand that if you tie the both together in a seamless fashion then you have a phenomenal game.

So the problem is not expertise in it itself, but the differentiation in gear usage. Bottom line, the only real solution is to forget about 2 sets of gear, make all gear the same for period, but just tier it so that folks that put the time and effort and money can get the ones with the better stats. SWG did it with no problem for many years.

So you might say...its not fair that someone can get the best gear just pveing and will be as competitive with some you just pvped to get the best gear....then I would say, it doesnt matter because if all they did was pve then they are not going to be very skilled in pvp....so it becomes about skill and not gear...oh my, what a concept!

So you might say....what about the peeps that put the time and effort to get the best pvp or pve gear...well I guess theoretically if they ever did implement this sort of change, then those that have the best gear would be able to trade those in for the best of the new gear...no biggie.

Anyways, just some things to think about, cheers
Sulsa Kan

DarthPunitor's Avatar


DarthPunitor
05.03.2012 , 06:19 PM | #219
Quote: Originally Posted by Timadan View Post
I honestly think you are serious here, other than the expertise the recruit set and champion set is utter garbage. A fresh 50 enters their first war zone with around 13k health, and might as well be swinging a plastic bat for all the more damage they can do. Where as with only 2 pieces of WH and the main hand the rest all battle master I sit at over 17 k on a scound.
still gets the job done for raiders wanting to try pvp. nobody wants to work for anything these days.
"Honor is a lie, a chain that wraps itself around those foolish enough to accept it and drags them down to defeat."
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