Undying Rage: The Final Word

I'm starting to think people that hve a huge issue with UR just play on servers with bad PVPer, and are bad themselves. I PVP'd on another server for the first time and was blown away by how terrible it is.

Almost every time I pop UR on my server and I'm being attacked by two people, I get CC'd almost immediately after they realize it's up.

Bad pvpers blow their CCs for anything. My force stasis and awe are almost always up (Unless it's Voidstar where I use it a lot for capping objectives). When I need to stop a trooper healer's uninterrupable bubble, when I need to stop a Tanksin from killing my healer (oops nevermind they have force shroud lol but that's fine apparently).

It just blows my mind how people claim to be good at SWTOR, and yet put such a heavy epmhasis on DPS. DPS is important, but no more or no less than tanking and healing. The only way to stop a trooper healer that properly uses their uninterruptable bubble is with, you guessed it, CC. Where is the complaining about that? They can cast for 12 seconds freely, obviously they ain't dying, except for the smart players who CC them during this time, becfause it's predictable. Barrier? You best believe they are spec'd to have it uninterruptable.

Meanwhile, that DPS PT that can do 400-500k damage in a WZ is taunting and AOE taunting people attacking his healer, and then turns to burst down the enemy healer. 3 DPS have their damage reduced by 30%, and another for an extra six seconds via single target taunt (Let's face it, most people don't notices this. IF THEY NOTICE THIS THEY NOTICE A SENTINEL IN GBTF.). That's fine.

For the record, I have no problem with the above abilities. I adapt, because I'm not a whiner. I didn't have a problem with healers pre 1.2, I killed them all the time. I thought the problem was bad DPS. The only healer that was OP IMO was a Commando/Merc healer with the uninterruptable bubble, and even then I could still overcome it unless they were really good.

Other classes have AOE that is ranged, and extremely useful for defending objectives, and forcing players to move in a manner you want to. (Dropping it on a healer). That's ok.

However, the sentinel/marauder gets a buff that takes 50% of their life, and lasts for 5 seconds. This buff is applied at a time not of the sent's choosing because a sentinel can not control how much damage they are taking. Therefore, it's not always popped during a time where you can deal much damage. Sometimes I just spam slash during GBTF because I have no focus, and stuff is on CD. You complain that your CC may be on CD? Ok. We have no activated abilities. The only abilities that don't have a CD is Strike and Slash. Where is the argument tht when we pop GBTF, an ability we cannot control when we use it (if we want to use it effectively and properly) that we may not be a killing machine 100% of the time?

None of you can even tell me what abilities a Marauder/Sentinel will use during this five seconds that will deal this massive damage I keep hearing about. I did my homework on other classes to properly exploiit them, yet you don't do your homework on mine and expect to not be at a disadvantage. Who's fault is that?

Force Fade and Transendence buff were two very very good skills for watchman, we lost them both. IMO it was a nerf because those two abilities WIN WARZONES.

If you are low on focus and zealous strike is down, as well as master strike, well, you aren't going to be doing much damage. Focus for a Sentinel isn't like a Jugg where it's coming out their eyeballs, the timing between your CDs and Focus generation has to be tight for maximum potency. We need rage/focus to do damage. The chances that I pop GBTF/UR AND have my best CDs up, AND the focus to use them, after already doing battle for some time is slim.

Real tanks, not tanks that wear DPS gear, tear us up because our attacks are mitigated by their tank stuff. However, nobody wants to play a tank in PVP, they just WANT DU DAMAGE.

Good Sentinel/Marauders will still tear you up with a nerf, I'm sorry to say. You people can't even go ten seconds without blowing all your cooldowns and CCs if they are available, just to kill one person. Force Stasis is a TOOL. Awe is a TOOL. I do NOT use them just to kill Sammy the Sorc, and I rarely even use them if it means to save my own life, unless that life is to defend an objective, or cap one. If it's just some random big battle, I will save it when I need it, like when a trooper healer pops their bubble.

tl;dr rant rant rant ;D

you have no understanding of the marauder class at all by what you say. just so you know the class build you describe above would be a 31/31/31 build. which if im not mistaken - is impossible.

the we have 3 10m attack. that all marauders get:
our 'execute' which is only useable at 30%
our healing debuff throw about as much damage as a basic attack
our force scream - which unless you are a carnage build would hardly ever get used because of the rage cost.

if you are rage spec you get Obliterate - And a 31point 10m force attack.
if you are annhilation you get bleeds - 31 point attack is 4m range - deadly saber(the bleedbuff) causes the next 3 melee attacks to apply a bleed.
if carnage - 31 point ability is again a 4m range melee attack.

TLR - you don't know the class at all - at least look at a skill tree from a spec builder before you just make thing up

The only thing wrong with Undying Rage (and a lot of other Marauder cooldowns) is that you can use it every 45 seconds. Increase the cooldown to 2 minutes and the problem is solved. Marauders should have to be smart about their cooldown usage and, as it currently stands, this is not the case. For some reason Marauders have incredibly short cooldowns compared to other classes, and this allows them to easily destroy anyone in a 1v1 situation. Make them think about when to use their strong defensive/offensive abilities, and Marauders become balanced.

Thank you for that objective assesment. I think people overestimate the power of Marauders because we are 1v1 fighters and losing 1v1 fights leaves a more lasting impression than being the victim of random AOE. I actually read a post in another thread where some guy said "Sure sorcs may drop 500k damage all day long in a WZ, but that doesn't really count, because they're not killing anyone". Um yeah dude, you are.

Marauders are designed to be the best 1v1 fighters in the game, and if played correctly we succeed in that endeavor. If/When 1v1 fighting becomes the most useful skill in a WZ, THEN we will be OP. Until then we are just annoying. You don't nerf someone for being annoying, you adapt.

I think both Undying Rage and Force Shroud should be purely defensive abilities. When either is popped the damage output should be at least HALVED.

This would do many things to help bring some balance.

1. People would stop complaining about marauders because marauders would not go into their blending, god mode, where you can't do $#!^ to them but they wreak havoc across the battlefield.

2. It would help balance Tankassins, so people would stop complaining about them. Force Shroud also lasts 5 seconds, and allows for some damage to be put out during the period, although not nearly as much as a marauder can in the same time.

Both abilities would be used defensively, as probably intended -- marauders as an escape tool, and sins as a tanking tool for carrying the ball etc... I'm sure both these changes could be coded to affect PvP only if necessary.

3. Deception sins remain largely unaffected as the FS is only 3 seconds long and mostly used in conjunction with vanish every couple of minutes.

Yup. I sucker people into this. Being a Watchman you almost always start off a 1v1 encounter playing catch up. Dots need to stack, Juyo needs to build stacks etc. Our class forces us to stay calm and let our damage build, someone called it a wrecking ball and that's a perfect analogy.

And exactly. Why are you targeting a marauder anyway if a healer is around? Someone actually had the nerve to say focusing a marauder before a healer makes sense. So they can...pop GBTF and just ge thealed?

Bad players are bad.

Again, why should marauders have to be smart about cooldown usage, when smart cooldown usage with CCs completely nullifies GBTF? Hmm?

The only reason Tankasins and Marauders don't always top DPS chart is because both classes represents immense threat so they're never ignored. I mean it's a given that most other candidates for best DPS have far worse survivality than either of those two classes, so if those guys are really that dangerous, how are they even alive in the first place? Even if they are indeed better DPS, they should do worse by the fact that they are dead and the dead does no DPS. Yet you'll see people ignore PT, Snipers, whatever and hunt down that Marauder/Tankasin. Maybe this isn't the smartest thing to do but it illustrates the relative power of the classes.

It's kind of like how in pro basketball you always hear people say, "Don't let the star of the other team beat you". In SWTOR you want to make the PT, the Sniper, or whoever else beat you, but not the Marauder or the Tankasin, because if you give an opportunity for either class to beat you, they definitely will.

L2CC better yet if your pugging you can't complain. I bet you those premades understand how to deal with all sorts of classes like mauraders. I personally do okay against them and my bubble makes me immune for 3 seconds as a sniper along with shield probe. Mauraders are really squishie if taken care of correctly and wisely. Teamwork people is all about teamwork.

Shhhh people will move onto snipers next......NERF snipers they dont die behind cover!