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Premades are responsible for failed MMOs

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are responsible for failed MMOs

DarthKhaos's Avatar


DarthKhaos
05.03.2012 , 09:27 AM | #221
Quote: Originally Posted by V-Serp View Post
No this is wrong. Guardian Leap is far better than passing because the range is longer, it's quicker, it provides a buff and you get perfect placement if you're doing it right. Passing is slower and does work but only against weaker teams that don't pay attention or you can easily overpower. The problem with passing also is that nobody really understands how the game rolls for who gets the pass in a crowd. It's too risky to throw a pass when there is an enemy, even stunned. But a Jugg/Guardian can just leap to the ally (or even the enemy if there is no ally!) and get the score.

Maras can also at least get the leap part, and then have defensive cooldowns that can get you across the goal line, especially if your resolve bar is up or high and if you have a CC breaker.
Know what makes passing better? No cooldown, points towards medals, forces the enemy to change target which sometimes can be quite a pain esp if the person was stealthed before and appears @ the moment of the pass, ALL classes can do it and did I mention no cooldown?
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F2P? NO THANKS
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Ghamsar's Avatar


Ghamsar
05.03.2012 , 09:34 AM | #222
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthKhaos View Post
Know what makes passing better? No cooldown, points towards medals, forces the enemy to change target which sometimes can be quite a pain esp if the person was stealthed before and appears @ the moment of the pass, ALL classes can do it and did I mention no cooldown?
but you can be stunned, chain stunned, grappled, pushed, pulled, knocked back

you can pass, but the guy runs away from the ball(wasn't looking)


its just better to pop whatever you need to pop.....run superfast through fire, immune to CCs, leap up, leap down, score.

Psssht....why do things the hard way when you can group exploit? You FAIL
Ghamsorry

Blloodbane's Avatar


Blloodbane
05.03.2012 , 10:34 AM | #223
I can understand the frustration of premades when you pug, and not everyone is in a guild (nor wants to leave their guild) that PVP's a lot. I had it happen to me last night, a particular republic premade group comes in and just owns most of the time. Because their side has a lighter population this is what you see most of the time and the imps are more populated and since 1.2 there is a **** load of new people in pvp... beyond gear, most are clueless about the post 50 PVP game and dont know the maps nor the place in the WZ and huge learning curve. So PUGS lose against them a lot...

With that said, I just log and take a break if I get too frustrated, but most of the time even against them I am still getting 7 to 10 medals and 60 to 80+ comms, so in the long run it doesnt really matter.

Personally, premades IMHO should only be allowed in rated WZ's, but like i said earlier, the Pub side is light so they would probably still end up mostly forming together anyway.
*The Sith Code* Peace is a lie ~ There is only passion~ Through passion I gain strength ~ Through strength I gain power ~ Through power I gain victory ~ Through victory my chains are broken ~ The Force shall set me free

Tathais's Avatar


Tathais
05.03.2012 , 10:41 AM | #224
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghamsar View Post
well one nade can wipe group movers

these premades that Hug healers.....what can you do by yourself? I try to circle to clump melee, flash bang...then pop everything and burn healer....if anyone has their CC breaker, the plan doesn't work.....I die regardless, but I love taking out the healer before I go..which does happen 1 out of 8 times I bust a group.
It doesn't sound like a very smart group (in an FPS) that stands together

As I said, it comes down to strategy. The bottom line is, in almost any game you can face organization and unless you have it yourself, you can't win. One person against 4 is just not possible (I don't think you can group up with 8 right now, can you?).

The best you can do in a pug is try to do useful things. In SWTOR, that means interrupting heals, messing up DPS, breaking captures, etc... If the entire team is hugging a healer and your team is off doing god knows what, there's not much you can do about it period. But if your team is in the mix doing stuff, just in an uncoordinated way, look for opportunities.

The alternative is look for common people in your games and ask if they want to step it up a bit. I've added a few people to my friends list doing just this. You may not be top notch and will still lose to the hardcore groups, but you'll have a lot better experience. Keep in mind the alternative isn't much better. WoW is a game where they have a high enough population and good group matching so that if you queue solo, you'll likely end up in a game with no groups on the opposite team. Those games tend to be unorganized messes.... kinda like herding cats. Nobody watches objectives and they all tend to chase someone all over the map trying (and failing) to get that kill. Honestly, I find a 20 minute match full of 10 year olds with ADD a lot more frustrating than a 4 minute match where I get stomped by a premade.

Personal preference though.

DarthKhaos's Avatar


DarthKhaos
05.03.2012 , 11:30 AM | #225
Quote: Originally Posted by Blloodbane View Post
I can understand the frustration of premades when you pug, and not everyone is in a guild (nor wants to leave their guild) that PVP's a lot. I had it happen to me last night, a particular republic premade group comes in and just owns most of the time. Because their side has a lighter population this is what you see most of the time and the imps are more populated and since 1.2 there is a **** load of new people in pvp... beyond gear, most are clueless about the post 50 PVP game and dont know the maps nor the place in the WZ and huge learning curve. So PUGS lose against them a lot...

With that said, I just log and take a break if I get too frustrated, but most of the time even against them I am still getting 7 to 10 medals and 60 to 80+ comms, so in the long run it doesnt really matter.

Personally, premades IMHO should only be allowed in rated WZ's, but like i said earlier, the Pub side is light so they would probably still end up mostly forming together anyway.
But you don't need to be in a guild to be a part of a premade. Most of the "premades" (which is a partial premade because you can't assemble a full 8 man premade yet) I've been in is not with my guild mates. Friends is one way to go, people you've noticed in PvP matches with you previously or even General Chat are sources of people to party with to queue up.
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F2P? NO THANKS
CANCELLED
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Sporticus's Avatar


Sporticus
05.03.2012 , 11:31 AM | #226
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghamsar View Post
well one nade can wipe group movers

these premades that Hug healers.....what can you do by yourself? I try to circle to clump melee, flash bang...then pop everything and burn healer....if anyone has their CC breaker, the plan doesn't work.....I die regardless, but I love taking out the healer before I go..which does happen 1 out of 8 times I bust a group.
So, in BF3 for example, if a squad has a couple of medpacks and ammo down at their location and therefore don't die when you nade them, are they 'exploiting' a group mechanic?
N'oden Inja, Dominus Nocturnus Vanguard

Shadowtown

Criosdh's Avatar


Criosdh
05.04.2012 , 10:11 AM | #227
Teamwork isn't even the bulk of the disadvantage.

Classes are nerfed all the time because of how their abilities stack to an undesired effect. The sorc in DAoC being one of the most notorious examples. RA that give serious damage reduction plus a RA that gave uninterruptable casting + base lifetap spell equaled practically untouchable sorc every cool down interval.

The same thing can happen across classes. Imagine a 1 vs 1 fight between a sentinel and a guardian. Now imagine a 1 vs 1 fight between a sent and a sage. Now imagine a 2 vs 2 fight, 2 sents vs a guardian and a sage. Now you have a guardian with a damage shield bubble and practically unlimited health and a sage with serious damage reduction AND the damage shield bubble and healz.

This kind of overlap can be tweaked further and further the larger the group gets. It can also be tweaked even further using particular class builds. The list goes on.

PUGS can do nothing against this. PUG group make up usually ends up being mostly random in warzones. So not only are PUGs at a major communication disadvantage due to lack of vent/etc but class make up and specific class specs take this even a step further.

So even if you have a PUG of highly skilled players that communicates well they are STILL at a big disadvantage.

DarthSabreth's Avatar


DarthSabreth
05.05.2012 , 12:08 AM | #228
Quote: Originally Posted by Blloodbane View Post
I can understand the frustration of premades when you pug, and not everyone is in a guild (nor wants to leave their guild) that PVP's a lot. I had it happen to me last night, a particular republic premade group comes in and just owns most of the time. Because their side has a lighter population this is what you see most of the time and the imps are more populated and since 1.2 there is a **** load of new people in pvp... beyond gear, most are clueless about the post 50 PVP game and dont know the maps nor the place in the WZ and huge learning curve. So PUGS lose against them a lot...

With that said, I just log and take a break if I get too frustrated, but most of the time even against them I am still getting 7 to 10 medals and 60 to 80+ comms, so in the long run it doesnt really matter.

Personally, premades IMHO should only be allowed in rated WZ's, but like i said earlier, the Pub side is light so they would probably still end up mostly forming together anyway.
I agree with you, i am taking a long break from pvping and rolled an alt on another server in the other faction. being destroyed repeatedly over and over for hours is not very fun. i will go back to pvping though as soon as they seperate the pugs from the premades. in the mean time i am enjoying playing the republic, all the quests are new and ive never done them before so its a refreshing break.
i do miss my main tho i love that toon.
"I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire!" Rip .

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
05.05.2012 , 01:15 AM | #229
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghamsar View Post
"Well, bye!" I quit, Premades 1-Me 0



Is there no way to design a game where players can play with each other w/o OP benefits from the synergy between classes?

Guarding healers, chain stun locks, friendly pulling, group speed burst,tandem sleep darts,..etc,etc....exploited skills.

Is it that hard to see how PvE skills will be abused in PvP?

Maybe i should just play FPS's...head shot's kill..EVERYONE..but this Jug+healer taking on 4 dps...is IMO a completely broken and abused model.

Excuse me, but aren't more people playing Solo (solo WZ ques) than Group ques(premade)?

So PVP devs design PvP where group play trumps all? Seems Bass Ackwards.


How about tanks can only guard themselves? balance around take less dmg/do less dmg....take more dmg/do more dmg

Maybe Healers' Healing should come directly from their own HP...let them have 31 pt skills that give them +500 endurance or 20k HP, but every time that they Heal it comes directly from their pool and they only can heal others, only dmg they do replenishes their own HP. (just a thought)

In my view, PvP is broken if 8 random ACs =/= 8 other random ACs

I don't exactly know why people say that there shouldn't' be 1 vs 1 balance without synergies, besides their own bias...But I've got too little time to waste on FOTM builds and tag teaming stunlocks.

see yall around..for maybe 46 more days. but I don't want to see another 2Jug/2OP healers with 4 assassins or marauders picking up the slack....from the boards, I can see I am not alone. From the ques and quits, i can see that I am not alone.

So go ahead and make your snide comments, how everyone from 14 to 60 y/o should be playing in premades to have "fun", or whatever ridiculous justification you have concocted to justify broken. I don't care anymore, i'm out.
I get that premades should be separated from solo queue...but your complaints about game balance is just "***?"

Sabredance's Avatar


Sabredance
05.05.2012 , 01:29 AM | #230
People grouping in an MMO

That said i pug all the time.