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Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

DarthTHC's Avatar


DarthTHC
05.03.2012 , 08:22 AM | #401
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackardin View Post
So why are you here?

If you are running four raid nights a week, using the LFG (supposedly on alternate nights), how is it that you have time to play another game? Why would you even want to if you enjoy that so much.

Like much of the hyperbole here, I'm calling this one as yet another that just blindly seeks an LFG and will promulgate any falsehood to support the argument.

BTW, what guild. I'd like to armory them and check the numbers because we all know how guild membership reflects actual active players.
I'm going to go ahead and guess that he's here in this thread because he enjoys doing group content and wants a better way to experience it, rather than experiencing chat spam while standing around on Fleet.

I might also go out on a limb and say that he wants other people who aren't lucky enough to live on a server populated enough to support large guilds to be able to experience group content.

Timesjoke's Avatar


Timesjoke
05.03.2012 , 08:22 AM | #402
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackardin View Post
We all have the right to our opinions, but as I stated, stop painting the LFG as a panacea, it is far from such, very far.
Stop taking a couple posts out of millions to try and make your case.

I see some idiot spamming garbage in chast right now, does that mean they represent every other SWTOR player?

The LFG tool is needed because even with a guild it is impossible to get people on the game at the same time to fill out runs. This is a fact WoW had to face and deal with to preserve players.


This is margeted as a MMO, but where is the MM?

On only a narrow span of 2 to 4 hours a day on just a couple servers does this game fit the MMO description, the rest of the 20+ hours of the day it is more like a single player shooter. The lack of players during the day (even the fatman shows low during the day sometimes) is the the paying player's fault. Not being able to group has nothing to do with community, nothing to do with good or bad behaviors, the only factor is the lack of other players on at the same time to find other players to fill out a balanced party.

Even if we divide the number of servers in half, we will still have the exact same problem of not enough people (or not the right people) to fill out groups......just like WoW had before they added the LFG tool.
No matter how hard you try, you can't beat time.

wyvernmonarch's Avatar


wyvernmonarch
05.03.2012 , 08:25 AM | #403
there's little to argue about. it's almost impossible to find any group for pve on my server, and warzones only fire regularly during peak hours.

a lfg tool isn't gonna hurt anyone because currently its basically impossible to find a group anyways

Blackardin's Avatar


Blackardin
05.03.2012 , 08:29 AM | #404
Quote:
Based on his writing alone, I'm going to go ahead and assume he probably richly deserved a vote-kick. Not the best example of the system working poorly.
Did a fly-by, did I? ;p

The point was not to exemplify the system at work, but to demonstrate the type of player that it breeds, that many of us got tired of dealing with but were randomly tossed into dungeons with. It is why there was a tank shortage and we, on the tanking boards saw so many posts from new tanks refusing to do dungeons, seeking alternate means by which to gear.

However, if one wanted to speak of the system at work, the very fact that these two individuals can continue to queue time after time, disrupt other's runs time after time with no determinant accountability does demonstrate its further failure. Accountability, like the gratification sought, is instant and short lived. The crux of the problem.

That is exactly why it is so easy to support in discussion such as this, because on paper it appears to be a panacea, in practice it is a dismal failure....especially when there are far better alternatives that will both solve the problem and avoid the debacle.

Either way, we can argue this to infinity folks, its already been voted against and will not be in this game. Thank the maker. ;p
May the Schwartz be with you....

vincent-'s Avatar


vincent-
05.03.2012 , 08:30 AM | #405
Quote: Originally Posted by Faeldawn View Post
The problem for me isn't the LFG queueing system, it's the cross server system that sucks. MMORPG's are about meeting players, grouping and developing a community, how is this possible if you are grouping with players on other servers who you will never see again?

I have made a lot of friends over the years, many im still in contact with, quite a few i still game with, all i met through gaming and most through grouping.

If they implement the cross server system anyone joining a guild will do so cold, your chances of meeting a nice guild through grouping with them and joining that way is pretty much nil.

The community in swtor is bad enough as it is, this is just another nail in the coffin.
Pretty much this.
A community should stay with it's own. I rather be on one whole server than have a hop over to one for one stupid mission and discover that there a holes or awesome people. That and I rather call out good guilds and bad people on servers to make a point.
"Bang bang, shootin' blanks every day."*chk chk chk*
Well, I tried.

DarthTHC's Avatar


DarthTHC
05.03.2012 , 08:31 AM | #406
So you're telling us that vote-kick doesn't work to remove idiots from the groups?

If that's truly the case, that is a flaw to be rectified in the implementation of the tool. It doesn't mean X-LFG is bad. It means the tool needs better features to ensure idiots can be dealt with properly.

marseluswallace's Avatar


marseluswallace
05.03.2012 , 08:32 AM | #407
Quote: Originally Posted by Perfidius View Post
Hoping someone can explain why the hate for the LFG tool that seems to abound on these forums, and if my thinking is so way off mark! Having played MMOs since Ultima Online, through SWG, WOW, RIFT, EQ, STO, LOTRO etc, I have seen various implementations of the above tool, and can honestly say, the tool improves MY gaming experience massively, just wondering why the hate, and how it has such a negative impact on others

So far the common arguments I have seen, which dont seem to hold any weight are:

'It ruins the community' - really? I fail to see how general chat spam of "LF2M Healer and Tank" over and over quantifies as community (and normally in caps)!! Those who argue you should make your own friends and guild mates, well then clearly you are very fortunate to have so many friends playing SWTOR at the same time who are wanting to instance at the same time that you wont need the LFG Tool, so again, I fail to see why the hate.

'All that is needed is a Global General Chat' - this would be great, but again would just be filled with spam, and also all the idiotic chatter about chuck norris, or how someone did something to someone elses mom, and actually have very little impact on LFG due to your message being lost in nonsense, not to mention that you have to watch the chat closely incase you miss your option.

'It ruins immersion' - normally from pvpers who like to gank people onroute to instance, or from people who want to see peeps travelling. Seems as all the instances are on the Fleets, then again, a LFG tool, even with insta telepor, would hardly ruin this?

'People can ninja with immunity' - probably the only valid argument i can see so far, but seems as most items are usable bny anyone and their companion, and people already role on items for their companions, it again looses weight.

As I see it the LFG tool means I dont have to spend Ages trying to find a group by sitting in Imperial fleet watching the drivel in general chat, I can play the game, with friends, whilst waiting for my group to assemble. Those who are violently opposed to this dont have to use it afterall, and can continue to spam, or play with their friends. The only valid reason I can think of is that maybe those who oppose it so much are such terrible players, they are afraid their 'friends' will abandon them if it is easier to get a group?!!!

Those of you who take time to post constructive posts, thanks, hope it will help to educate/Develop my understanding. Those who just flame, OMG LFG tool is terribad with no justification, please save it for one of the other million threads about LFG tools!
In some games, like lets take STO for instance, this function works like a charm. Why? No griefing due to Ninja Looting. LFG Tool sets you up with anyone. I would rather put together a raid group with people I know, or have been suggested to group with, rather than some unknown that will ninja loot the gear myself or others are trying to get. Or, in TOR's case. You're doing a Heroic or FP, and an Item for you class drops and you need it, the person you with that is the opposite class, will need the item and take it from you.

Thats is pretty much my biggest beef with it. If people could be more honest and not so crappy, ya right, then this function would work alot better.
Hooflungpoo - Sith Sorcerer/Healer Corellian Run

DarthTHC's Avatar


DarthTHC
05.03.2012 , 08:34 AM | #408
Quote: Originally Posted by marseluswallace View Post
In some games, like lets take STO for instance, this function works like a charm. Why? No griefing due to Ninja Looting. LFG Tool sets you up with anyone. I would rather put together a raid group with people I know, or have been suggested to group with, rather than some unknown that will ninja loot the gear myself or others are trying to get. Or, in TOR's case. You're doing a Heroic or FP, and an Item for you class drops and you need it, the person you with that is the opposite class, will need the item and take it from you.

Thats is pretty much my biggest beef with it. If people could be more honest and not so crappy, ya right, then this function would work alot better.
The problem with your thought process is that you've based it entirely upon the notion of "Ninja Looting". BioWare developers have said that it's fine for people to roll Need even if they just need the credits they'll get from vendoring the item. (I don't agree with that, but it's what the devs said, so it is what it is.)

There is no Ninja Looting in this game.

DawnAskham's Avatar


DawnAskham
05.03.2012 , 08:35 AM | #409
This is all a moot point. Bioware will implement an LFG tool, and for technical / 'let the community adapt' reasons it will be single server at first, but eventually it will go cross server.

It is NOT a matter of IF, it is a matter of WHEN.

And you can quote whatever you like from whatever developer you want saying otherwise, but it won't make the above any less true.

And the reason is simple. Every major competitor out there either has or will have cross server grouping abilities. The 'suits' at Bioware will not handicap their game by not offering features that are in high demand with today's player base that other games have, regardless of any individual developer's personal feelings.

Blackardin's Avatar


Blackardin
05.03.2012 , 08:35 AM | #410
Quote:
Stop taking a couple posts out of millions to try and make your case.

I see some idiot spamming garbage in chast right now, does that mean they represent every other SWTOR player?
Another fly-by. Maybe I should come in lower. LOL

sorry, no offense there. Just kidding a bit.

The difference is that your example will not force his way into my group through some random chance. The one in mine will, time and time again. Your can be held accountable, mine cannot. Stop trying to dance this discussion all over the place with visceral reactive replies and concentrate rather on the reasoning being explained.
May the Schwartz be with you....