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Patch Notes reading "X changed to Y #/credits/damage/etc." You aren't fooling anyone.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Patch Notes reading "X changed to Y #/credits/damage/etc." You aren't fooling anyone.
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ArmoredJuneBug's Avatar


ArmoredJuneBug
05.01.2012 , 02:48 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
If they told you every single detail in the patch, including specific numbers, you would complain that Bioware is revealing spoilers and that you have no reason to log and check things out.
Explaining game mechanics, mission rewards, crafting material requirements or whatever is hardly spoilers.

I not only agree with the OP but would ideally like to see every minuscule detail added to the patch notes, including minor typo fixes in bonus missions or whatever. It's not like any changes will go unnoticed in a game of this magnitude anyway so it's far preferable to know the actual facts than having to extrapolated based on personal experience alone.

Revelationjp's Avatar


Revelationjp
05.01.2012 , 02:51 PM | #12
They didn't reduce it. It was bugged and not dropping any. It was a fix.

AllisonBerryman's Avatar


AllisonBerryman
05.01.2012 , 02:54 PM | #13 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Quote: Originally Posted by ArmoredJuneBug View Post
I not only agree with the OP but would ideally like to see every minuscule detail added to the patch notes, including minor typo fixes in bonus missions or whatever.
We do our best to find a balance between giving players detailed information and condensing notes that have less impact on players to make the notes more readable overall. We always want to note (in detail) changes to mechanics, fixes to issues that could prevent progression on missions, new options, and fixes to high-visibility problems (like things on our known issues list), but we do tend to condense notes about typos, minor art changes (like fixes to seams in terrain), and other minor changes into broader notes. You can see good examples of this in the 1.2 notes with the general notes about cinematics polish and other similar notes.

XavinNydek's Avatar


XavinNydek
05.01.2012 , 03:07 PM | #14
I would suggest making a short summary of notes for people who don't really care, and then very detailed ones (similar to what you must have internally) for the people that do. In general, the people looking at the notes want the tiny details, the average player isn't going to read them at all.

A lot of times the notes feel like they have been filtered through so many layers that the meaning is lost. There have been quite a few misleading word choices in the past that were probably an honest attempt to simplify things that can't really be simplified.

terminova's Avatar


terminova
05.01.2012 , 03:15 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by XavinNydek View Post
I would suggest making a short summary of notes for people who don't really care, and then very detailed ones (similar to what you must have internally) for the people that do. In general, the people looking at the notes want the tiny details, the average player isn't going to read them at all.

A lot of times the notes feel like they have been filtered through so many layers that the meaning is lost. There have been quite a few misleading word choices in the past that were probably an honest attempt to simplify things that can't really be simplified.
In general, the players looking at the notes don't want the tiny, unimportant details, they want the important changes.
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ArmoredJuneBug's Avatar


ArmoredJuneBug
05.01.2012 , 03:26 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
We do our best to find a balance between giving players detailed information and condensing notes that have less impact on players to make the notes more readable overall. We always want to note (in detail) changes to mechanics, fixes to issues that could prevent progression on missions, new options, and fixes to high-visibility problems (like things on our known issues list), but we do tend to condense notes about typos, minor art changes (like fixes to seams in terrain), and other minor changes into broader notes. You can see good examples of this in the 1.2 notes with the general notes about cinematics polish and other similar notes.
I understand that perfectly, and I recognize that my personal preferences regarding this are neither universally shared by the player base nor an efficient use of resources.

None the less I'd prefer to read all changes, as I'm the guy that tend to silently rage over getting stuck in that terrain seam, having an NPC facing away from me in a conversation that I'm watching for the tenth time, watch the planet I'm just jumping away from still hanging on in the side of my ship's windscreen while the 'stars' pass over it and so on.

I'm not complaining over the way things are as such, I just wish for... more.

Sir-Coffee's Avatar


Sir-Coffee
05.01.2012 , 03:37 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
We do our best to find a balance between giving players detailed information and condensing notes that have less impact on players to make the notes more readable overall. We always want to note (in detail) changes to mechanics, fixes to issues that could prevent progression on missions, new options, and fixes to high-visibility problems (like things on our known issues list), but we do tend to condense notes about typos, minor art changes (like fixes to seams in terrain), and other minor changes into broader notes. You can see good examples of this in the 1.2 notes with the general notes about cinematics polish and other similar notes.
Oh really? I suppose the stealth nerf to the Second Wind talent(For Guardians) and Payback talent(For Juggs) had very little impact to us Jugg/Guardian players. I'm sure you guys could have mentioned that in the patch notes, but why bother?

Most Juggs are horrible, and when I was complaining about the nerf to Payback, people had no idea that the heals couldn't crit anymore.

ironix's Avatar


ironix
05.01.2012 , 03:39 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
Is there a particular note you'd like more information about? We do want to include specific information about increases and reductions where possible (you'll notice many notes with "reduced x by y (down from z)" ), but some notes may not have as detailed information as others. We'll continue working to make sure notes are as detailed as possible - we know the information is important!
The 1.2 patch notes for example. Every single beneficial change for operatives was noted like this:
Laceration now costs 10 Energy (down from 15) and deals approximately 10% less damage.

Whereas, any nerf was noted like this:
Backstab now has a 12-second cooldown and deals approximately 5% more damage. [which should read up from 9 seconds]
-and-
Lethality now increases critical chance by 1% per point. [which should read down from 2% per point]
-and-
Razor Edge now increases Shiv damage by 4% per point. [which should read down from 5% per point]

I would quote the changes for other classes, but I don't know them well enough to recognize a buff from a nerf given the lack of information in the patch notes. The way patch notes are represented, one needs to do a bit of forensic accounting to figure out whether an ability was buffed or nerfed.
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Obiwansghost's Avatar


Obiwansghost
05.01.2012 , 03:46 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by ArmoredJuneBug View Post
Explaining game mechanics, mission rewards, crafting material requirements or whatever is hardly spoilers.

I not only agree with the OP but would ideally like to see every minuscule detail added to the patch notes, including minor typo fixes in bonus missions or whatever. It's not like any changes will go unnoticed in a game of this magnitude anyway so it's far preferable to know the actual facts than having to extrapolated based on personal experience alone.
With this, there is a catch 22. There are those who would like to see every single thing fixed in the patch notes, then there are those that would complain and say "you brought the servers down for this???? really?" and they don't seem to care that it could be a hotfix for said problem for example.

There are also things that most MMO's do not put in patch notes..exploit fixes etc for obvious reasons. What it comes down to is, they cant please everyone and that's why we get what we get. Not enough details in patch notes can give the impression that they are hiding something (nerfs etc), but there are also times where the changes are mostly backend and nothing is really affected on the user side.
Saberwing
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Mephane's Avatar


Mephane
05.01.2012 , 05:22 PM | #20
For this matter I prefer patch notes of the type that instead of stating
Quote:
X now is Y
have a wording of
Quote:
X has been increased to Y
A has been decreased to B
Even without giving precise before/after numbers, such lines unambigously state the direction of the change, which is important for many people who don't calculate and compare the exact numbers, but at least want a rough qualitative comparison.

Personally, whenever I read patch notes that say "X is now Y" the first thing I expect is a nerf, hidden behind an ambivalent wording in the hope that not too many people immediately realize there is a nerf. Even if such an interpretation is completely wrong and unintended, it would serve everyone, both Bioware and us players, much better to use a wording that does not allow such ambiguities.

P.S.: When I wanted to reply to this thread, I landed on a "you are not logged in, click here to log in" prompt. After logging in I was sent to my account management, not back to the thread or the reply editor.
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