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Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

Cerion's Avatar


Cerion
05.01.2012 , 08:46 AM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by chaosdefined View Post
No that's exactly what you are doing. My option was to give a Group Finder that allowed players the choice of using it for Cross Server or Single Server. That way both sides get what they want.
Your option wasn't an option at all, but simply what you want and nothing more.

I suggest you double check what the definition of compromise is.
It isn't what I want. I have only one horse in this race, which I've mentioned. Sorry. I'm simply a bystander, looking at it objectively.

Your option DOESN'T give both sides what they want. That's the problem. It gives your side what it wants, and pretends to give the other side a choice, a choice it never asked for. The other side doesn't want LFG period, or has that escaped you?

The compromise position means each party gives something up. Your suggestion means you give up NOTHING, while the other side gives up its position entirely. The truly compromise position here, in which both sides give up something for the middle ground, is same-server LFG tool. Period. You're forced to give up x-server while still getting LFG functionality, whilst the other side is forced to give up its entrenched resistance to any LFG tool and the issues they perceive it brings.

That's my lesson for today.
Good will always triumph because Evil is lazy.

Valkirus's Avatar


Valkirus
05.01.2012 , 08:47 AM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by DawnAskham View Post
A bit different than TORs from what I've read. It appears each player will be given a roll for loot, independent of all other players. If a player 'wins' their personal roll, then they are awarded loot for their class from the boss loot tables.

The key to the system is that loot is no longer fixed in the sense that a boss only drops X items that are then distributed by roll to the group, but rather that each player has an independent chance at winning loot, so there can no longer be any 'so and so took MY loot' type issues.
True and good points. And the no more waiting on the selfish player who logs without rolling for a item.
Trust is something which is earned.

siegedeluxe's Avatar


siegedeluxe
05.01.2012 , 08:49 AM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by ironix View Post
Sadly this solution screws over low population servers, though I agree that cross-server PVP & LFG makes it more difficult for communities to develop.
There are no communities, you either make one or you don't at all.

Florial's Avatar


Florial
05.01.2012 , 08:49 AM | #104
I have mixed emotions at this point but am leaning towards having a LFG tool, even if it is cross-server. I think that others have it right---if the overall gaming community is pretty good from the start, you won't have this "it ruins community" argument. WoW was the first MMO that I played that had this feature in place and I must say that the majority of my runs were with vile people. I would come across some rare good groups where people were patient and kind but they were few and far between. The degree of cruelty and unkindness in groups was pretty appalling and after a bit, I left WoW and went on to other games with a better community. I've come to the realization though that the overall WoW community is just horrid so these people would exist with or without the LFG tool.

When the cross server LFG tool finally came to Rift, it wasn't the end of the community. For the time that I played Rift, people were generally pretty good in groups, even from other servers. I can't comment on other games that had cross server features since I didn't play them when this feature was added. I must say that I did enjoy this feature since it allowed me to do my dungeons when my guildmates or friends weren't on. Overall a great feature.

chaosdefined's Avatar


chaosdefined
05.01.2012 , 08:51 AM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by DawnAskham View Post
A bit different than TORs from what I've read. It appears each player will be given a roll for loot, independent of all other players. If a player 'wins' their personal roll, then they are awarded loot for their class from the boss loot tables.

The key to the system is that loot is no longer fixed in the sense that a boss only drops X items that are then distributed by roll to the group, but rather that each player has an independent chance at winning loot, so there can no longer be any 'so and so took MY loot' type issues.

And I'm all for cross server LFG. I cannot fathom why people hate the idea so much. Just like the poster above, the biggest draw is being able to run ANY content at ANY time.

I'm on a high population SWTOR server, yet depending on the day and time, and what content I wish to run, I may not find a group. And having friends and guild members doesn't change the fact that outside peak times and typically for end-game content, finding a group can be nearly impossible.
That's genius, what has it taken this long to finally update the loot distrubution model in an MMO! I love that idea.

Kourage's Avatar


Kourage
05.01.2012 , 08:52 AM | #106
Dude you read the hate, so you you already read the explanation.


Your answer starts here
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=293015
Looking for a good woman. Able to clean, cook, sew, catch bait, and clean fish. Must have boat and motor.
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ferroz's Avatar


ferroz
05.01.2012 , 08:53 AM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by Cerion View Post
Your option DOESN'T give both sides what they want. That's the problem. It gives your side what it wants, and pretends to give the other side a choice, a choice it never asked for. The other side doesn't want LFG period, or has that escaped you?
His option does indeed give all 3 people what they want.
  • The people who don't want lfg period can continue to not use a matchmaking lfg tool.
  • The people who want a single server lfg tool can queue up and check the single server only box
  • The people who want a cross server lfg tool can queue up and check the cross server box.

I notice that you've moved from one blatantly false position (the cross server allows RMT/gold sellers to transfer items cross server) to another blatantly false position (that the above suggestion doesn't offer a choice).

The fact that you just dropped the former blatantly false position without any concession about how you were wrong makes your more recently blatantly false position look like an elaborate tap dance to distract people.

chaosdefined's Avatar


chaosdefined
05.01.2012 , 08:54 AM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by Cerion View Post
It isn't what I want. I have only one horse in this race, which I've mentioned. Sorry. I'm simply a bystander, looking at it objectively.

Your option DOESN'T give both sides what they want. That's the problem. It gives your side what it wants, and pretends to give the other side a choice, a choice it never asked for. The other side doesn't want LFG period, or has that escaped you?

The compromise position means each party gives something up. Your suggestion means you give up NOTHING, while the other side gives up its position entirely. The truly compromise position here, in which both sides give up something for the middle ground, is same-server LFG tool. Period. You're forced to give up x-server while still getting LFG functionality, whilst the other side is forced to give up its entrenched resistance to any LFG tool and the issues they perceive it brings.

That's my lesson for today.
I'm afraid you really have no idea what you're talking about. Nothing you said makes sense.

I can't believe I'm having to explain what a compromise is to you. I can't believe you don't understand what it is.

I'll try again....third time lucky....

A compromise doesn't mean you have to give something up, it means you find middle ground. Giving both parties the tool and options means both get what they want. Giving only a single server means only one side gets what they want.
It really is one the simplest things I've had to explain to someone, how are you not getting it?

siegedeluxe's Avatar


siegedeluxe
05.01.2012 , 08:55 AM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by Florial View Post
I have mixed emotions at this point but am leaning towards having a LFG tool, even if it is cross-server. I think that others have it right---if the overall gaming community is pretty good from the start, you won't have this "it ruins community" argument. WoW was the first MMO that I played that had this feature in place and I must say that the majority of my runs were with vile people. I would come across some rare good groups where people were patient and kind but they were few and far between. The degree of cruelty and unkindness in groups was pretty appalling and after a bit, I left WoW and went on to other games with a better community. I've come to the realization though that the overall WoW community is just horrid so these people would exist with or without the LFG tool.

When the cross server LFG tool finally came to Rift, it wasn't the end of the community. For the time that I played Rift, people were generally pretty good in groups, even from other servers. I can't comment on other games that had cross server features since I didn't play them when this feature was added. I must say that I did enjoy this feature since it allowed me to do my dungeons when my guildmates or friends weren't on. Overall a great feature.
The reason why there are so many "vile" players in WoW is simply this, kids and teens are playing that game.

ferroz's Avatar


ferroz
05.01.2012 , 08:56 AM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by Skidrowbro View Post
Successful at what? Dumbing a game down to the point that your pet can play it?
Successful at exposing the majority of the playerbase to the end game; previously only a small minority had actually been able to be involved in the end game content.