Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

I played Wow for years and the cross server dungeon tool absolutely killed the community whether you see it or not OP. I am talking cross server here and not just one that would only incorporate your own realm, don't see a problem with that.

First it was cross realm bg;s in wow which was were previously I made most friends then the cross server lfg tool was the final nail in the coffin.

Care to explain how a Group Finder tool magically made people not care about their 'community' and stop talking to each other?

Group Finder = Group = Playing Game = VOODOO = no community?

The game needs LFG tool asap at least for ppl that are leveling. Im lvl 35 playing on med-high server and I have yet to get a full 4 man team with the c urrent tools ingame. Why ? Because there are 5-10 ppl playing the planet in TOTAL and many are on diffrent quests and spread all over.

Horrendous design.

The only argument I see that has some validity is from the people who auto-add the other 3 people the run a PuG with to their friends list and then spam these people first when they are looking for a group. Personally I find it a little annoying when someone does this and I get whispers as soon as I log on asking me to run something. Yeah, with x-server LFG you can't do this. Oh well. If this is the trade-off for not waiting 60 minutes for a FP then sign me up.

Regardless, it is a tough case to make that this behavior is one of the cornerstones of a server's community anyways. How many people can name the players that they grouped up with for a random pug FP in the last week?

IMHO if you want to use FP's as a social interaction then you join a guild.

I think that you only need Flashpoint lfg tool, i play on empty server and do not have problem looking people for heroics. I teamed up with some players and we had fun and i think that heroic or two is enough to judge am i going to add player on friend list. And no im not gonna spam them with run stuff but when i am in mood or need of heroics i gonna ask first for a friend that is online and on a same planet as me...
Now, problem with lfg tool is not the lfg tool in it self..it is people that do not use him...
When there is no online friends, i look for who list and no one is looking for one, you can add lfg icon and comment but no one has it...people ask on general chat is there some one for heroics but they do not mark them self as looking for group and if u miss it in chat u cant answer.
Also...a lot of people do not answer ****, i was doing same quest with some guy i asked him to join in a group but he ignored me and we ended up racing for the crates. Some people simple dont want grouping with other players.
Its that simple. No LFG tool can change that.

P.S.
English is not my first language so sry for grammar and spelling

Anyone who suggest such a solution really doesn't know what they're talking about. You cannot create a situation where some people have access to a tool where others don't simply because of some arbitrary line.

Maybe I can help explain the whole problem. The problem is not with the LFG tool itself, but how many companies decide to implement it.

Most often than not, when a LFG / LFD tool is implemented, it is done as an "auto-group" feature and then they add cross-server. You say you want a LFG / LFD, but did you know that with /who, you already have that funtionality in SWTOR if people use it? You can even add comments about what you are looking to group for. So the tool is "technically" already in the game. The thing is, I have heard over and over again "i don't want to talk to anybody to do <xyz-activity>......"

Example: During the recent Rhakghoul event, people were complaining about the vaccine and it costing 2k credits. At the same time, those who were into the event were saying "If you ASK me for some vaccines, I will give you some cause I don't use them as i am doing the dailies. Just ASK me for one." But when you get responses like "I don't want to ask you for one cause I shouldn't have to" it gives you a sinking feeling in the stomache.

In an MMO, there's needs to be some sort of communication. I have been in so many parties in other MMO's where not a word is spoken. The group is formed, and for 5 hours, no one says a word. Then the group just disbands and you're sitting there wondering "Did that just happen.... Not even a word...???"

As much as people hate on it, I played FFXI from beta til about ~2 years ago and it fostered a true server community. People complained about the forced grouping, but you got to know everyone on your server. You knew what classes they had, their levels, their alts, and even a little about them personally. You knew how they played, and what their strengths were. But sitting there for hours in a group, you talked; even if it was just about something totally stupid - you talked to each other. You got to know the people on your server who were just lazy, those trying to better themselves, and those who were just so they could talk to their children / grandchildren (yes grandma and grandpa play) cause they live 3000 miles away. That started going downhill quickly when auto-grouping was added.


I have seen, even in SWTOR, people who just refuse to change their gaming-style to make themselves a better player. "Hey smuggler, how come you don't drop into cover?" "Cause it doesn't really add a whiole lot of benefit for me." :O "Hey, how come you never have your 60 min. ability up" "Cuase it sucks" :O We understand about playing how you want to play, but there are some basics that should be inherent to everyone and they are not. And when people choose to refuse to adapt, it causes a problem for me if I'm in your PUG. So many people don't know the basics of their own class - and don't want to know.

As was stated before, in a server only situation, it can be policed by the server as a whole. A player refuses to change for the better, we can refuse to group with them - SERVER WIDE. So as a community, we can help to hopefully make it better. Someone is always spamming general chat with "I @$@ your mom and chuck norris and ...." they can be refused parties. That means no operations, no flashpoints, no joining a Guild, etc.. They change or they are excluded...

Now with cross-server, it can no longer be policed and these people can continue to do w/e they want without any reprocussions. How does someone on server 50 know how someone on server 2 is? How does someone on server 6 know that the PUG they just got has people from 2 other servers that just sit at the Flashpoint entrance and do nothing to contribute? I get plenty of blind invites, is it that hard to /whisper me "Want to join me?"

I have met many people from MMO's; many whom I've even met IRL. I found out that 2 people in one of the Guilds I was in, lived literally 1 mile down the street. We had been seeing each other at the store for years not knowing it. MMO's have a unique them about them. I don't know the color of your skin, the language you speak, the country you are from, where you live, what job you do, etc... Yet we can come together for a common goal and get along without issue. And on top of that, we can police the community of our server in a, normally, civil manner.

We talk to each other, we can help each other out. There are many stories of people helping out people IRL not ever meeting them but only what they know from the game. That's the community people don't want to get rid of. And unless you've ever been part of a community like that, you just will never understand.

I don't know what WoW you are playing but on all the servers I play there is a thriving community. People know each other, people know who is bad, and lame. And people that actually like to group more than they like being safe from the very rare (yes, they are rare) lame lfg person, will use the lfg tool. And actually GROUP in the two hours thye have to play.

The "it ruins community" gripe is a straw man. LFG tools have not affected community one iota. I don't know what to tell you except that the same "community" can't be behaving differently for two people. I know I am not lying, or delusional. Therefore I must assume you are.

Stop saying the lfg ruined the WoW "community". NO.

To me, in theory, it sounds like a great idea.. I spend (waste) way too much of my actual playing time sitting at the fleet, spamming "LFG".. btw, I also have my LFG tab filled out as well.. and no one wants to run anything..
Yes, friends list and guildies, that's where most ppl first turn to, so saying that I'm spamming LFG at the Fleet should indicate that all other options have been exhausted.
So, I'd love to be able to group with ppl from other server for FP runs..

Posted this in another topic, sorry for cross post.

sums up my thoughts however.

Its really not a clear cut issue. There are pro's and cons to each view. However are the problems i have with arguements like yours. (and i am not agressively flaming you here mate, just trying to play devils advocate).

The problem with the whole "we dont need it find a guild" argument is that its not a good argument against a cross-server LFG tool. Its a proposed solution and its not a good one because its not relivent.

My Example/Justification for saying this is,

If you are in a guild, and IF you are already running flashpoints or oporations with your guild, a cross server LFG tool would have zero impact on your game play experiance. You have already isolated your small part of the community and you are happy playing with it. (and frankly good for you). In essance a cross server LFG tool should not effect anyone already persuing this play style.

On the other hand lets look @ a cross server LFG tool and look @ why its a good idea, or why its a bad idea.
.1. GOOD - it allows the developers to scale there infrastructure in a more flexable manner so that server populations are less of a issue and also when they need to be changed via mergers/transfers/community management they have breething room.

.2. BAD - People act like a55holes in groups where they are not going to see people again. Meaning, that using a tool can sometimes (most of the time if you believe these forums) have a poor experiance in a group.

I totally agree with point that people can be idiots in random groups, but same server groups are not imune to this problem ether so its only half decent argument. Its worth noting however that at least same server groups might become aware if someone is a ***. That said, if you have one bad day with same server envrionments you might have your card marked slighly unfairly as well. (not that this is a good arguement - never the less its true however).

The issue with the whole "get a guild" argeument is effectively you are saying "play this way and you will be ok". In a MASSIVELY cometative gaming space (MMOs are, there is tones of choice of consumers to go spend there hard earned money) it make sense for the health of a games population to make the game availible to the most people possible. a Cross server LFG tool would allow flexibility in the community that means that people like me (someone who as a mid30s guy, with a busy real life) could experiance group content - right now i dont have the time to find a group - and with the state of the population on my server even if LFG was any good, i would probably still struggle.

Of course once server transfers come up id be ok right? Well the problem is that really you are still cutting player choice id still be reliant on people on my server (and swtor servers seem to have a small number of max players in any case) to want to do the same instance as me.

Not only that, server pops arnt just a problem right now, its a evolutionary process through out a games life - so we might get rid of the issue on a tempory basis but we would only be shifting the player base's problems by another 6 months.

Like i said, a cross server LFG tool would have zero impact on your game play experiance if you want to play only with people on 1 server, it would also give me more choice due to my compleatley limited play time. I am not saying your wrong i am just saying its not a simple argument.

In the past we didnt need LFG tools because they had not become common place, but back in the day (and i've played most mmo's prior to wow, EQ, AO, Ultima etc) - it was ok to sit around not doing anything waiting for a group - it fostered a strong sense of community - the problem is any MMO now expecting people to do that will not be a commercial sucess - this is because people have come to expect "instant action" (the main exception to this is eve online) - i want SWTOR to be a success for bioware and EA ; to do that they are going to have to cater for as many play styles as possible without hurting people in oposite demographics.