Dear Expertise, You Are Terrible

Sorry, you have no clue 10-49 is way more gear heavy then lvl50 pvp, this is due to how the bolster mechanic works, purple gear impacts the game much more than it should and classes getting their pvp core abilities at different lvls screws the whole notion of skill in <50 pvp, being able to get expertise a lvl40 increases that imbalance further. <50 pvp is joke if it comes to balance.

All I see is someone facerolling for the last 12 or so lvls 10-49 and then meeting people who actually know what they are doing at 50.

Resilience was actually put into the game because of PVE concerns. PVPers were whining that raid geared players were entering warzones and crushing everyone under the weight of their epics. So PVP gear was introduced that had just straight up stats. It was the best in the game. You could grind that **** out solo if you had enough basement time and mountain dew. PVE min-max OCDers then complained that PVP high warlords were going into raids and kicking their asses on the DPS meters. So they added resilience, a way to make PVP gear good for PVP, yet terrible for PVE. In the end the best gear for pvp was a mix of the two anyway.

I agree that expertise is terrible, but the bottom line is not expertise, it's the gear gap. Even if you remove expertise there will still be unkillable terminators in pvp. That's the nature of the game. They should just make a bolstered bg option for 50s that gives only moderate cash rewards. I'd play the **** out of that.

SORRY YOU THE ONE WHO IS LOST at 10/49 a level 30 on blues can take on a level 30 on blues a level 40 on epics can take on a level 40 on epics a level 20 on blues can fight a level 30 on blues and win only problem whit 10 to 49 is not gear is no tiers is 10 to 49 all of them together

NOW put some brackets and we be good i will even say open Warzone's to level 1
So
1-15 bracket 1
15-30 bracket 2
30-45 bracket 3
45-50 last bracket i know some of you will say what level 45 fighting level 50 all i have to say is this at level 45 you can buy the recruit gear NO expertise Only Armor stats thes all for thos who dont Run Any Op then can go and buy a set of armor the will help them and sens theres no expertise You wont be steam roll as hard you will still get steam roll put it wont be like you see it now at level 50 a fresh 50 get destroy whit this new system you can do something I mean YOU BIOWARE something like Boost thos level 45 players to level 50
and if you want to put a pvp buff on Warzones something like 20% lest player damage go for it put only went you in a warzone

sorry for my spelling guys

Greetings,

I've read almost every post here, but one thing I've noticed is that no one has made the differentiation of what Expertise does. I think that the Pro-Expertise camp has purposefully ignored it, and I think the anti-Expertise camp didn't notice this or didn't care cause they don't want the stat any more.

There are two different things that you can do to resolve this "issue":

First Option:
Take the Second part of the stat off.
Expertise will Decrease Damage Taken by x%
Expertise will increase Damage Done by x%

This (Dmg Boost) is the unbalanced part of the stat, for one it increases your damage done to other players by a much higher percentage then it reduces damage. So when you pit two people with 1000 expertise against each other you are in for a good fight. But if you were to pit that 1000 expertise player against 4 people that have 0 expertise, you just steamrolled through half their team.

Take that part of the stat away, you now have someone who can survive against 4 other players, but can't "steamroll" them. Here's part two of the equation, you should be able to reduce the amount of damage reduction at this point (because we aren't increasing the flat damage to players through expertise) from 15-20 percent to 10-15 percent(could even take it lower if needed), so that 1 person would still be able to hold/defend a point against 3 players until his team arrives. To take it to hutt ball, it also means a team could still take down a ball carrier if they don't have the same/more expertise, and not see one person with the ball walk through the entire map with the ball. you should be passing, you should be strategic.

Option 2:

I don't like this one as much, because then it adds a tier of I've done what I can, now I play for nothing other then to kill my fellow players.

Set an Expertise cap, where it will give you a benefit against other players who don't have any expertise, but it makes it competitive, in no case should 1 person ever be able to take on half a team and last 5 minutes. It should be at most 60 seconds, which is still an enormous time to last against HALF the enemy team.

I'm sure I might get burned for saying all this, but there is a third camp. PVP Deserves an edge, but not a bull dozer. PVE Deserves an edge against PVP Gear in PVE Content, and that is generally through reducing alt stats on PVP Gear. but it's up to the Devs in the end. So I'm going to go put on my flame retardant armor and hope it lasts.

Alright, just checking I heard you correctly.

<----------------------------^----------------------------->

About the general idea of making a buff/removing expertise etc...

Below I'll provide 3 links, one to my own thread discussing a loose model (and some bickering) for PvP/PvE Interchangeable content as compiled from several posts I've seen before. The other two are information gathering surveys to create a more indepth "model" using soft statistics (Hard metrics would be way better, but aren't something I have the tools to achieve.)

A Suggestion for End-Game Progression

PvE End-game Run Times
PvP Win Rates and Run Times

wrong. reason? math.

steamroll? bulldozer?
pvp gear has like what? 400+ mainstat and endurance LESS than equal tiered pve gear already, they were straight out GIMPED in pve content. on the other hand, even if battlemasters were to deal 20% more damage to you, you had 20k+ hp life anyway, compared to them with 16k-something. their damage reduction is like what, 17%? so you when you normally deal 2k damage, it becomes 1.66k damage, still about the same comparison to your health pools. note that you already inherently deal more damage than them normally due to your much higher stat anyway.

edit:
although i agree that one way to do it is to balance both ends equally. i dont think this is what generally most mmo publisher would want to, since people can basically just do one end and enjoy the benefits of both endgames (which means reduced playtime, as compared to having people run both pve and pvp for their respective endgames).

Baseline the stat between all tiers and move on already..
the stat has been more problems than its worth. Its difficult for somebody who is competent to balance things out, and the truth is we do not have that person working on TOR.

^_^ I agree with you on what the publishers want, but if they are looking for the good of the community, it would be to not divide us. The only suggestion I would make is perhaps to slow the gear progression of both down.

For example, Let's say PvE gearing takes 60 hours, and PvP takes 50 hours. That's a combined 110 Hours. They could balance the two, but make it 80hours total to gear either way. (So can split 80-0, 40-40, 60-20, etc...) Though they lost 30 hours in total for both sides, PvE and Pvp gearing both gained 20 and 30 hours respectively.

Just a thought. I come from a game where gearing took 400+ hours if you were lucky! (-.- evil game)

Math for a basic equation


Roger will do

I have 983 Expertise I crank out a bonus 19.57% damage on players from all sources of damage, so I pull 5k DPS, I now pull 5978.5k DPS (avg) on this player. That's a whole Bonus of 1k dps. which will take a 20k Health player out in about 15 seconds.
By taking this out, I take him out or he takes me out in closer to 25 - 30 if he doesn't take me out before that

We take the other side of the coin, we also add in a damage flat damage reduction to my damage taken from other players. at 983 at a 16.53%

Against a non pvp geared player at baseline of 5k DPS it will reduce their DPS Down to 4173.5 dps. Taking effectively longer to get me dead. This is also going to be affected by dodge/parry/deflect, movements, armor, defensive cool downs, stuns and all that stuff that makes the game unpredictable, and w/o knowing SWTORs equations effectively impossible to equate exactly. (would also need their RNG system)

By leaving the Expertise as it is (no changes) it will make a difference of ~2k dps between my damage, and their damage. where as by taking the bonus damage out of the equation and leaving it as defensive only, you will reduce the "benefit" to only a 1k Spread.

This is a lot more beneficial where it will help you take them down by reducing the amount of damage you take. Not the amount of damage you deal(to other players)


On a different note, when I was a fresh 50 w/ only what I could afford 2-300 expertise, I would last only about 5-7 seconds against a toon in full Battle master gear. By leaving the system as is, you will find less and less people queuing for PVP.

This all gets me to the final point. in the near future TOR will be adding ranked matches, in which case that is where the elites will stand. Where you can legitimately ***** someone out for entering w/o having full Battle-master gear. But when it comes to casual players, you can't have such a difference with out driving customers from the game. which can and will happen if the course of gear is not changed. or if the system is not "re-vamped"

No. Stop PVEing. case closed.