What Sent/Mar spec and change has contributed to them becoming op?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic
What Sent/Mar spec and change has contributed to them becoming op?

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RoyFokker

04.29.2012 , 12:22 PM \| #51	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by dirtyboxer If they dont fix it, they'll end up with Sentinal vs Marauder WZs. Because everyone and their brother is rerolling one of these two classes for good reason. Which brings me to another point, if anyone is looking to start an alt, Marauder/Sent is a very good choice. If thats where they want these 2 classes to be, damage wise, everyone needs to have one. What wave of rerolls? I haven't seen an overabundance of new ones. The few new ones I do see, I crush because they're that bad.

Darianth

04.29.2012 , 12:26 PM \| #52	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by ZDProletariat lol It depends on the spec actually. If the sniper is using a very specific spec, they have a chance. If they are not, they have as much of a chance as the other classes. Btw trying to insult one of my posts isn't relevant to the absolutely incorrect info in that other post I laughed at. Marauders have too many defense cooldowns against sniper damage to die to them unless they run at them at less than 100% hp or don't have their cooldowns. If we want to stun them at under ~30% hp to kill before the undying rage, than we can only use either our knockback or our flashbang, not both. If we use our knockback, all you have to do is go invis and pop up on us opening with a snare. We won't be able to get far enough away to not take damage, our only chance is to face tank. If we leave cover for one second, jump at us for extra damage to keep us close. We only have one stun. If we want to save it for the last, then we will take damage at the beginning, too much to recover from usually. I'm sorry that you get killed by gunslingers regularly. But if it is a 1v1 situation, and not being attacked from him while on another target, then that's your own lack of skill or cooldowns (why are you running at a covered gunslinger with no defense cooldowns anyway?) If you disagree with any of this, please provide real information, explaining the way you get killed, and show you actually know what you are talking about. If you can't, then both my points still stand. Also, I have absolutely no idea where you got the idea that I am "more pve than pve". Even if you can deduce that from some forum posts, it has absolutely no bearing on the arguments being made. The funny thing is he is right. I slaughter alot of people 1v1 on my slinger marauder being one of them. The only time I really die is when 2 or more notice I'm slaughtering them and one stuns me an they both wail on me but unless they kill me in time I can cc and get away.

AruthaWolf

04.29.2012 , 12:37 PM \| #53	Quote
I have raged quite a lot (to myself) about the average of 6! damage I see above marauders heads after they pop their cooldown, it is quite annoying. The major problem with it is that for the duration attacking that marauder is useless, so most people change targets and he gets healed. What it needs is a 99% damage and healing reduction for 5 seconds, because with a healer it is just 5 seconds of invincibility seeing as the 50% hp loss is nothing. (and it would not affect questing and shouldn't really have to use it in Operations) Or change the 99% to be some number you can work out/supply yourself such that 1 dps would do 10% of a marauders hp during the duration. Making the dps who sees the marauder cloaked still try his hardest to finish him.

nellosmomishot

04.29.2012 , 12:54 PM \| #54	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by AruthaWolf I have raged quite a lot (to myself) about the average of 6! damage I see above marauders heads after they pop their cooldown, it is quite annoying. The major problem with it is that for the duration attacking that marauder is useless, so most people change targets and he gets healed. What it needs is a 99% damage and healing reduction for 5 seconds, because with a healer it is just 5 seconds of invincibility seeing as the 50% hp loss is nothing. (and it would not affect questing and shouldn't really have to use it in Operations) Or change the 99% to be some number you can work out/supply yourself such that 1 dps would do 10% of a marauders hp during the duration. Making the dps who sees the marauder cloaked still try his hardest to finish him. If you were attacking the sentinel with a healer nearby you deserve to have the sentinel healed back up while hes invincible. Seriously, how difficult is it to save an interrupt or a stun for the healer... or better yet, attack the healer. As a healer i'm astonished at how frequently I'm the only one harassing the other healer with KB and interrupts. More on topic with this thread. I don't see what all the QQ about sentinels are about. Honestly, even if you can't kill them... using your snares and LOS effectively you should be able to avoid taking too much damage (I'm a healer, not sure what DPS would do here). The really good sentinels on my server can lock me down and keep me from healing effectively, but still don't down me (1v1 anyway, any healer should die in a 2 DPS vs 1 situation though). The bad sentinels get rolled along with the bads of everyone else. I play a sage and sentinel is supposed to be my "hard counter" and I still don't see them as OP.

Sleak

04.29.2012 , 01:07 PM \| #55	Quote
The only change that makes them OP is Ravage/Master Strike being uninterruptable and giving you a talent that makes it snare somebody. I agree that ravage/master strike should be immune to interrupts. Your playing a melee class, it doesn't make sense for a melee ability to be interruptable. The snare however is just ridiculous. I have over 1200 expertise and a marauder in gear similar to mine can crit me for 4500-5k with the last tick of ravage. I mean really? 3 second channel cast that the damage can range from like 3k if nothing crits to 9k if everything crits. I know people will complain about people running out of it but you have to be able to do something to save yourself. Saving your stun just in case you fight a marauder sometime in a warzone is completely impractical.

Seravis

04.29.2012 , 01:24 PM \| #56	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by AruthaWolf I have raged quite a lot (to myself) about the average of 6! damage I see above marauders heads after they pop their cooldown, it is quite annoying. The major problem with it is that for the duration attacking that marauder is useless, so most people change targets and he gets healed. What it needs is a 99% damage and healing reduction for 5 seconds, because with a healer it is just 5 seconds of invincibility seeing as the 50% hp loss is nothing. (and it would not affect questing and shouldn't really have to use it in Operations) Or change the 99% to be some number you can work out/supply yourself such that 1 dps would do 10% of a marauders hp during the duration. Making the dps who sees the marauder cloaked still try his hardest to finish him. Marauder bubble already has quite a few weaknesses to it compared to the other bubbles in the game. Notably no self cleanse or CC immunity and that potential 9k damage they can do to themselves. Also like everyone else has pointed out. Focus the healers first. There is a reason that a marauder is one of the WORST classes at protecting their own healers. They have no taunt/guard/pull and their CC options are very limited compared to other classes. They do great at taking down unguarded healers, but very poorly at protecting their own healers. Undying rage only becomes a "second life" if you fail to kill the healers first. Otherwise its a lot like an assassins bubble but it doesn't grant CC immunity nor does it cleanse them of all debuffs. Also having abilities in the game that actually discourage blind zerging of the closest enemy you see is a good thing. PVP 101-Focus the healers first.

ZDProletariat

04.29.2012 , 03:41 PM \| #57	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Darianth The funny thing is he is right. I slaughter alot of people 1v1 on my slinger marauder being one of them. The only time I really die is when 2 or more notice I'm slaughtering them and one stuns me an they both wail on me but unless they kill me in time I can cc and get away. There are countless variables not being brought up. Any slinger can shoot a marauder in a fight for a node and destroy them. Any slinger if healed can face tank a marauder. Any slinger can root and run long enough for the marauder to be picked apart by others close by. Any slinger can even kill them if you have the upper hand, get the first shot off, and only need to go through 60% of their hp while they need to get to you. Any slinger can kill poorly geared marauders. Any slinger can kill poorly skilled marauders. But an equally geared, equally skilled marauder with his cooldowns, against you with yours, beginning the fight at melee range 1v1. That's the problem. Kiting isn't an option with snares and force leap and force camo. They have too much defense that you aren't able to go through, and can't stun or knockback for long enough for the amount of damage they can do to you. Pacify and saber ward completely nullify your damage for a long time, and rebuke gives them the damage mitigation a vanguards power shield does (almost) Then guarded by the force at the end. Again, we have to choose to either knock them back, or flashbang through one of their defense skills, or if you want both, you can't stun at the end before the gbtf. If you think you have an answer that consistently works, I'm all ears. I'm not the usual juvenile on these forums that will not listen to reason. To instead of just saying he's right, what is the answer that I somehow failed to find after 83 valor levels?
"Do you find that normal nerve after the thug that two other classes as loud clap louder than see him before the nerve? The 5k is full of stuff I champion and master of combat. This game is the bag B ** E! Brave the nerve of thug developers not prevail in paradise." - Authentic SWTOR Forum Post

Blloodbane

04.29.2012 , 03:57 PM \| #58	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Sleak The only change that makes them OP is Ravage/Master Strike being uninterruptable and giving you a talent that makes it snare somebody. I agree that ravage/master strike should be immune to interrupts. Your playing a melee class, it doesn't make sense for a melee ability to be interruptable. The snare however is just ridiculous. I have over 1200 expertise and a marauder in gear similar to mine can crit me for 4500-5k with the last tick of ravage. I mean really? 3 second channel cast that the damage can range from like 3k if nothing crits to 9k if everything crits. I know people will complain about people running out of it but you have to be able to do something to save yourself. Saving your stun just in case you fight a marauder sometime in a warzone is completely impractical. Speaking from Mara perspective, I dont know the mirro names that well. The kind of damage you are talking about is only on crits and possibly firing off gore as an opener too. Okay its a root and not snare and it last duration of Ravage, if you play a trooper (or have a KB ability), you dont have to move just pop your knock back, not only does it move him away from you, but it stops that third (and most deadly) tick on Ravage. If you dont have that you will either have to Stun/CC which will also stop that last deadly tick. Failing that you will have to root and hope you can get out of range of 10m (its not point blank) before that third tick drops. If you see a Mara or Sent, it might be wise to save your stun as a defense rather trying to use it offense. I know its heart breaking but if it means the difference in the combat, just think about it. Now mind you, this is one tree that can root during ravage, thats Carnage... This tree has no real healing to speak of and highly dependent on healing. If I have one, my numbers are good, if I have to withdraw from combat to heal up and so forth, my numbers are lower. The tree most people are hating on and most marauders agree is the best tree is Ahnilation (Watchman for Sents???) and thats the one that has dots and healing. Carnage is pretty much nothing but a glass cannon thats has a range of melee...
The Sith Code Peace is a lie ~ There is only passion~ Through passion I gain strength ~ Through strength I gain power ~ Through power I gain victory ~ Through victory my chains are broken ~ The Force shall set me free

furiousferret

04.29.2012 , 04:15 PM \| #59	Quote
IMO, the biggest thing to change was class dynamics in pvp. Pre 1.2, this was a ranged game; Marauders were still good but they were constantly being kited and focused on by teams of Sorc's. Playing against an all ranged team is frustrating, even now, because you may be able to kill one but the rest will burn you down. Now, its the opposite. Instead of Warzones being 12 ranged and 4 melee, its 12 melee and 4 ranged. Guess who the melee go after now? Ranged go down so fast its not even funny, but so did melee pre 1.2. I think the biggest 'change' Mara's had was the 10% increase to thier finisher, for me at least that was a huge change. Ravage is good, but not a vast improvement over old rotations.
Theronot - Conqueror Juggernaut Theranot - Conqueror Operative Therinot - War Hero Marauder The Bastion (formerly Black Vulkars)

MagicmanNC

04.29.2012 , 08:04 PM \| #60	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Sleak The only change that makes them OP is Ravage/Master Strike being uninterruptable and giving you a talent that makes it snare somebody. I agree that ravage/master strike should be immune to interrupts. Your playing a melee class, it doesn't make sense for a melee ability to be interruptable. The snare however is just ridiculous. I have over 1200 expertise and a marauder in gear similar to mine can crit me for 4500-5k with the last tick of ravage. I mean really? 3 second channel cast that the damage can range from like 3k if nothing crits to 9k if everything crits. I know people will complain about people running out of it but you have to be able to do something to save yourself. Saving your stun just in case you fight a marauder sometime in a warzone is completely impractical. You do realize that's only the Combat/Carnage spec that gets the root from Master Strike/Ravage, and that Combat/Carnage represents the vast minority of Sentinels/Marauders, right? Also, to crit that high (and I've never seen one of mine go above 4.5k on an un-geared opponent) we have to use it in a 2-3 GCD window after using Precision Strike/Gore, which is often easier said than done. I am starting to think that a big red flashing warning sign pops up whenever I use Precision Strike......that or the Imps on my server are really good with the timing of their knock-backs/stuns.

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