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Your technology needs help... lots of help... lots and LOTS of help. :(

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Suggestion Box
Your technology needs help... lots of help... lots and LOTS of help. :(

ironix's Avatar


ironix
04.28.2012 , 02:47 AM | #291
Quote: Originally Posted by VoXPCS View Post
The horse is on the ground dude, why do you and others with more talent and skill keep kicking it. Help a game with a pulse, one that wants to live.

EA has made what they're going to make. They're praying for 6 more months of sustainability before it STARTS costing them money to operate this piece.

You're obviously extremely skilled in the area programming. Don't waste your breathe on the Hero Engine. Unreal and Crysis engines will always reign superior and there isn't a single BW employee with your depth of knowledge otherwise, this thing wouldn't have released as bad as it did, as STILL is after the -

"Largest patch in MMO history"

3 other major games make fun BW's statement openly in chat, it's comical. If wal-mart were an engineering company, the Hero Engine would be it's flagship. Period.
Some people continue to kick said horse because they have the smallest hope that maybe, just maybe, the problems will be fixed and the game will flourish.
Godwin's Law for SW:TOR -- As a discussion in the SW:TOR forums grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving WoW or being told to "go back to WoW" approaches 1.

JeramieCrowe's Avatar


JeramieCrowe
04.28.2012 , 02:48 AM | #292
Quote: Originally Posted by GlowstickSwinger View Post
Just feeling you out.
Okay....

Quote: Originally Posted by GlowstickSwinger View Post
Why are you obsessing over process queuing? I'm speaking, exclusively, about disk i/o and network i/o, the two slowest resources on the average computer. The processor suffers from potential starvation when adding disk and network wait times, which I never said was the issue.

I'm not sure where you thought I did say that.
You didn't say that. That's why I bring it up. The Hero Engine doesn't just automatically stop when it needs to read from the disk. It stops only if there is a latency with reading from the disk. Which many factors now come into play.... Let me qualify that. It only stops *noticeably* if there is latency with the I/O.

Quote: Originally Posted by GlowstickSwinger View Post
It's not situational. The -entire- game loop -stops- when reading from disk.

Reading from disk is not an FTL operation yet. It takes time to find and assemble that data. And the entire game loop comes to a -dead halt- when that data is being read from a call in HeroScript.

It has nothing to do with process queues or CPUs or threads or anything. It is strictly how the application was structured to "simplify" maintaining game logic.
It does, though. There is no such thing as a process that does not have to do with all of that. It has to do with I/O latency, processor queue, AND random access priority queue. You cannot objectively quantify the issue without observing all.
Allix Crowe - Vanguard Trooper -/- Ethavan Crowe - Smuggler Gunslinger -/- Malrath Crowe - Powertech Bounty Hunter -/- Boslo - Jedi Knight Sentinel -/- Jiao-gen Pall - Jedi Knight Guardian -/- Landen Tanarr - Jedi Consular Sage -/- Vaelyth Kinti-kaar- Sith Warrior Juggernaut -/- Oteln'erose'thu - Imperial Agent Sniper -/- Zandur Tuum - Cathar Knight

JeramieCrowe's Avatar


JeramieCrowe
04.28.2012 , 02:48 AM | #293
Quote: Originally Posted by ironix View Post
Some people continue to kick said horse because they have the smallest hope that maybe, just maybe, the problems will be fixed and the game will flourish.
And then there are those of us who see through pessimistic crap and realize the game is already flourishing.
Allix Crowe - Vanguard Trooper -/- Ethavan Crowe - Smuggler Gunslinger -/- Malrath Crowe - Powertech Bounty Hunter -/- Boslo - Jedi Knight Sentinel -/- Jiao-gen Pall - Jedi Knight Guardian -/- Landen Tanarr - Jedi Consular Sage -/- Vaelyth Kinti-kaar- Sith Warrior Juggernaut -/- Oteln'erose'thu - Imperial Agent Sniper -/- Zandur Tuum - Cathar Knight

ironix's Avatar


ironix
04.28.2012 , 02:51 AM | #294
Quote: Originally Posted by JeramieCrowe View Post
And then there are those of us who see through pessimistic crap and realize the game is already flourishing.
Okay... I understand now. Enough said.
Godwin's Law for SW:TOR -- As a discussion in the SW:TOR forums grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving WoW or being told to "go back to WoW" approaches 1.

JeramieCrowe's Avatar


JeramieCrowe
04.28.2012 , 02:52 AM | #295
Quote: Originally Posted by ironix View Post
Okay... I understand now. Enough said.
I realize that realism is not as cool as pessimism, but I get by.
Allix Crowe - Vanguard Trooper -/- Ethavan Crowe - Smuggler Gunslinger -/- Malrath Crowe - Powertech Bounty Hunter -/- Boslo - Jedi Knight Sentinel -/- Jiao-gen Pall - Jedi Knight Guardian -/- Landen Tanarr - Jedi Consular Sage -/- Vaelyth Kinti-kaar- Sith Warrior Juggernaut -/- Oteln'erose'thu - Imperial Agent Sniper -/- Zandur Tuum - Cathar Knight

GlowstickSwinger's Avatar


GlowstickSwinger
04.28.2012 , 02:53 AM | #296
Quote: Originally Posted by JeramieCrowe View Post
The Hero Engine doesn't just automatically stop when it needs to read from the disk. It stops only if there is a latency with reading from the disk.
....

Again:

"The HeroMachine (virtual machine in charge of running HeroScript) processes HeroScript synchronously where one instruction must complete its operation before the next one may be started. "

The request for the resource not only waits until it can access the resource, but the time it takes to find and gather those resources? Yeah, it's waiting there, too. -Every- call to a disk has latency. While it's pulling data, the game loop will not move on to the next HeroScript. When reading the data, the game loop is still in the same HeroScript. When processing any of the data from those files, the game loop is still in the same HeroScript.

I hope HeroScripts has some Snickers, cuz they aren't going anywhere for a while when you get a disk involved.

JeramieCrowe's Avatar


JeramieCrowe
04.28.2012 , 02:58 AM | #297
Quote: Originally Posted by GlowstickSwinger View Post
....

Again:

"The HeroMachine (virtual machine in charge of running HeroScript) processes HeroScript synchronously where one instruction must complete its operation before the next one may be started. "

The request for the resource not only waits until it can access the resource, but the time it takes to find and gather those resources? Yeah, it's waiting there, too. -Every- call to a disk has latency. While it's pulling data, the game loop stops.
Which I said, in the part you cut out from my quote, that it only stops *noticeably* if there is latency with the I/O. Usually only if more than a few threads are accessing the data. And if that's the case, you need to stop.

Again, you're acting as if this processor hungry MMO is the end. It's not, it's actually been culled to work with what's available, a "bare-bones" engine. That's good news!! It means that it's more expandable as more powerful hardware becomes available.

It seems like it's doing some unnecessary crunching. But that's because it's a culled version of the whole. And if you've ever worked with a culled version of the whole, it's a beast to work with, let me tell ya.
Allix Crowe - Vanguard Trooper -/- Ethavan Crowe - Smuggler Gunslinger -/- Malrath Crowe - Powertech Bounty Hunter -/- Boslo - Jedi Knight Sentinel -/- Jiao-gen Pall - Jedi Knight Guardian -/- Landen Tanarr - Jedi Consular Sage -/- Vaelyth Kinti-kaar- Sith Warrior Juggernaut -/- Oteln'erose'thu - Imperial Agent Sniper -/- Zandur Tuum - Cathar Knight

Rikeryo's Avatar


Rikeryo
04.28.2012 , 03:04 AM | #298
Quote: Originally Posted by JeramieCrowe View Post
Hardware? Nah, it's a matter of watching your software, really. There's so much crap that you can inadvertently cause your processor to sweat it's not even funny. And make no mistake, we're talking about a processor issue here.

However, we cannot fault BW for creating a game that's next-gen, while "cutting the fat" for now to work with what's currently available. I, for one, am glad to see an MMO that is so ready to be expanded upon. And I think OP is misinterpreting his data to mean that it's just processor-heavy with nowhere to go.
please explain to me how this modified, cheap, bad performing, ugly looking engine is any kind of next-gen. thank you. additionally, be so kind and explain your silly motivation to defend this game blindly at all cost. is that you, renegadeimp aka bw employee?
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JeramieCrowe's Avatar


JeramieCrowe
04.28.2012 , 03:07 AM | #299
Quote: Originally Posted by Rikeryo View Post
please explain to me how this modified, cheap, bad performing, ugly looking engine is any kind of next-gen. thank you.
The very fact that it's culled and wonky makes it appear "cheap, bad performing, ugly-looking". I haven't met a program yet that works at optimum when it's culled to work on low-tech.

I'm not employed, no. Just a realist who calls 'em like I see 'em.
Allix Crowe - Vanguard Trooper -/- Ethavan Crowe - Smuggler Gunslinger -/- Malrath Crowe - Powertech Bounty Hunter -/- Boslo - Jedi Knight Sentinel -/- Jiao-gen Pall - Jedi Knight Guardian -/- Landen Tanarr - Jedi Consular Sage -/- Vaelyth Kinti-kaar- Sith Warrior Juggernaut -/- Oteln'erose'thu - Imperial Agent Sniper -/- Zandur Tuum - Cathar Knight

Rikeryo's Avatar


Rikeryo
04.28.2012 , 03:09 AM | #300
Quote: Originally Posted by JeramieCrowe View Post
The very fact that it's culled and wonky makes it appear "cheap, bad performing, ugly-looking". I haven't met a program yet that works at optimum when it's culled to work on low-tech.

I'm not employed, no. Just a realist who calls 'em like I see 'em.
so your excuse for bad performance on mid - high end systems is the fact that the devs developed this engine to run on a wide variety of systems, even low end? or are you denying that this game runs subpar on countless systems while other games run just fine?
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