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To the biased Sents/Maras defending their OP class

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
To the biased Sents/Maras defending their OP class

Derian's Avatar


Derian
04.27.2012 , 10:09 AM | #231
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
I think we should try this first: make the effect REALLY VISUALLY OBVIOUS. I think a lot of people are just frustrated that they get a marauder down to 10% and then blow their cooldowns and resources doing no damage because they didn't realize the marauder popped Undying Rage.

As I understand it, it's currently a pale red/blue (depending on faction) oval bubble. What about a red/blue flash that becomes a red/blue crackling or shimmering bubble?
The massive reduction in damage isn't obvious?
Synion
Shards of Alderaan/Republic Justice

Jedi Sentinel-Watchman
Jedi Conqueror

Xaearth's Avatar


Xaearth
04.27.2012 , 10:11 AM | #232
Quote: Originally Posted by Scoobings View Post
Because in a team fight, they can still be healed to full and start all over again. Same idea as a retribution paladin, except their bubble lasted slightly longer but could be dispelled. Maybe not a 99% reduction, but a 50% reduction like in WoW I would think would be acceptable, but I think this game needs to do as many things to distance itself from WoW as possible and I think we can do better than that
In a team fight, why are you focusing the marauder instead of the healer?
"The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with BioWare."
~ SWTOR Update 1.2: Legacy

Scoobings's Avatar


Scoobings
04.27.2012 , 10:13 AM | #233
Quote: Originally Posted by iiell View Post
I can't use GbtF more often than other classes can use stuns, knockbacks, etc... all are in a sense "defensive" cooldowns.
Defensive CDs are moves that serve no other function than to increase your survivability, not just moves that are used defensively. Otherwise, that term is so loose that almost any move could be considered a defensive CD. We'd have to start counting charges and heals etc, and then we lose the point of having the definition or category to begin with.
- Kaeljen, 50 Powertech - Mal'Shek, 50 Juggernaut
- Adien, 50 Assassin - Jest, 50 Sniper
- Kijaar, 15 Sentinel

Derian's Avatar


Derian
04.27.2012 , 10:14 AM | #234
Quote: Originally Posted by Madnutter View Post
Yes you are......you talk about cds being situational......if using a cd stops you dying and you have it available, against 1 person, you dont use it and you die, what benefit do you gain from saving it for when you get jumped by more than 1 person.......
Why would I die? Aren't I OP?
Synion
Shards of Alderaan/Republic Justice

Jedi Sentinel-Watchman
Jedi Conqueror

Faat's Avatar


Faat
04.27.2012 , 10:14 AM | #235
Quote: Originally Posted by Xaearth View Post
Of course, it's the same people that defended Operative burst (post 50's bracket and buff stacking)... because we actually know how to KITE.

And yes, you can kite a Marauder/Sentinel.
Either they charge first, giving you ~10s of time with their charge on CD, that's ~8s you can stay out of their range - MAKING YOU UNKILLABLE TO THE MARAUDER - or they don't, either way whenever charge isn't on cooldown, you just have to stay either further than 30m or between 10m and 4m and you're golden.

Edit: Of course, unless they're annihilation, but then that's your fault for getting owned by lolDoTs.
I'll repeat, if you're getting kited by any class on your mara, you're the one bad out there. Saying things in CAPS or bolded dosen't make it more true. Also, lol, so you leap and don't root / snare right after ? Baddie mara is bad. how can i kite ? Should I use my CC breaker on the root / snare ? Say something that makes sense unless you want to be part of the 'I failed math in kindergarten' group.

iiell's Avatar


iiell
04.27.2012 , 10:15 AM | #236
Quote: Originally Posted by Scoobings View Post
Defensive CDs are moves that serve no other function than to increase your survivability, not just moves that are used defensively. Otherwise, that term is so loose that almost any move could be considered a defensive CD. We'd have to start counting charges and heals etc, and then we lose the point of having the definition or category to begin with.
So you are claiming a stun doesn't increase the "stunner's" survivability? And same with knockbacks? Interesting...my Scoundrel uses her Stun and Mez in a defensive manner all the time...
"Monsters are real and ghosts are too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." - Stephen King

Derian's Avatar


Derian
04.27.2012 , 10:16 AM | #237
Quote: Originally Posted by Faat View Post
I think we understand your point. perhaps though, that you should just step away from the keyboard and take a breath of fresh air, reading your incessant 2-3 biased posts per page is really really painful to say the least.

I don't think Maras need a gigantic nerf, but in any actual discussions we could go on with arguments better than 'you ask for a nerf because you're bad' and help BW find a compromise between DPS and survivability for maras. When I play my BM vanguard I can kill most of them not breaking a sweat, but that's because I know how to play. if I fight a good player playing a mara, I'll lose, since even if you say 'kite within 10m range, spam ion pulse', it won't be dealing enough damage, and if I get the mara below 10%, he uses undying rage, then either pops stealth, pops a medpack, etc. Not that I think it's not right that an alpha class exists, but any sane MMO dev would try to fix any disparity between classes before they get their FOTM status.

Right now, the lower levels are flooding with mara / sents, and that's a symptom of bad class balance. Even if you call me bad I don't care, since I'm currently playing a BM vanguard assault specced, and was entirely correct with the nerf they introduced in 1.2, and still thinks HiB / railshot needs to be sligthly tweaked to tone down burst but improve damage sustainability (for example, cutting down 5-10% HiB damage, but improve the amount of ammo generated per procs). So stupid I can ROFLSTOMP nubs in 3 - 4 GCDs, I don't like that, and in every game I played, in GW1 particularly, I always tested a lot of stuff and helped the designers balance the FOTM to maintain a healthy metagame. You, are showing your immaturity with your constant condescendance, and you'll probably just leave for another game when both your beloved classes gets normalized like the others have been. I don't think, even if you're an extremely talented player, that you'd be taking down Maras with any of the other classes, even gunslingers (lol baddie maras lose to gunslingers now, lol gimme a break, get out of LoS, baddie)

Maras deal a balanced amount of DPS, but their survivability cooldowns / utility needs to be toned down to the DPS Ops level.
Ok, can we have stealth then?
Synion
Shards of Alderaan/Republic Justice

Jedi Sentinel-Watchman
Jedi Conqueror

Scoobings's Avatar


Scoobings
04.27.2012 , 10:20 AM | #238
Quote: Originally Posted by Xaearth View Post
In a team fight, why are you focusing the marauder instead of the healer?
Because, sometimes you switch targets to put stress on healers. Also, sometimes healers respawn and rejoin fights. I could probably think of a few other circumstances where mauraders might receive healing during GBF if you want me to. I'm pretty bored at work (in case my post volume wasn't an indicator enough of that )
- Kaeljen, 50 Powertech - Mal'Shek, 50 Juggernaut
- Adien, 50 Assassin - Jest, 50 Sniper
- Kijaar, 15 Sentinel

doctorfirepants's Avatar


doctorfirepants
04.27.2012 , 10:20 AM | #239
Quote: Originally Posted by Scoobings View Post
How is that different from any other defensive CD in the game, or any other class? It's not. At all. Every class is effected severely by stuns. The fact that you are incapacitated by stuns is exactly the same for every class in this game, and every defensive cooldown.

Also, the fact that your CD is on a 90 second CD instead of a 2-5 minute CD means you will, in fact, be able to use it way more frequently than most classes can use their defensive CDs. Also, in sheer volume of defensive CDs, you have the advantage.

I can't believe how even against the slightest adjustments, like a 30 second increase in the CD to guarded by force, people throw a freaking hissy fit. In a game of 10 second TTKs, 5 seconds of immunity is a huge deal on a 90 second CD. It either needs a CD increase, a Static HP cost that if you fall below you can't use it, or rebalanced.

If it was me, I'd want the CD increase. The alternative would be to increase the TTK again, but BW doesn't seem to be heading in that direction with their changes. Actually, they're going the opposite.
The only person that's throwing a hissy fit is you though. I never said our defensive cooldown was affected by stuns any differently, nor did I say it is easier to counter than any other one. What other CD in the game eats half your health though? It is used in a very specific situation and by staying observant you can completely negate it. It is such a well known ability that you should already know its coming before it actually happens, and it is used as such a specific time that even if I'm successful in fending off the person I'm attacking, it will not allow me to take on the next person without direct healing from someone else. Point is, it's a strong ability that is easily countered by common sense.

TTK is to short in this game, I would much prefer a longer fight than a shorter one, but it works both ways. As I said, if a marauder uses undying rage and you don't counter it, yea your gonna go down most likely, but very very likely he will go down shortly after you as well.
CE

Scoobings's Avatar


Scoobings
04.27.2012 , 10:21 AM | #240
Quote: Originally Posted by iiell View Post
So you are claiming a stun doesn't increase the "stunner's" survivability? And same with knockbacks? Interesting...my Scoundrel uses her Stun and Mez in a defensive manner all the time...
No I'm claiming moves used defensively aren't the same as defensive moves.
- Kaeljen, 50 Powertech - Mal'Shek, 50 Juggernaut
- Adien, 50 Assassin - Jest, 50 Sniper
- Kijaar, 15 Sentinel