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p2p vs f2p


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anstalt's Avatar


anstalt
04.27.2012 , 04:14 AM | #201
I think I'd quit if it ever went F2P.

I stuck around in LOTRO after it wen't F2P (well, it had its hybrid model of payment) and I simply came to realise that going F2P means someone screwed up. In the case of lotro, the management screwed up by never ever advertising the game! The content was good, the polish was amazing, the world was well designed, in the 5 years its been out I only ever saw two adverts for the game (and that was on youtube). So, due to lack of advertising, they had less players and thus less money which sent them in to a downwards spiral.

In most other F2P games I see the same thing. Something has gone fundamentally wrong somewhere. Usually, its just that the game design and implementation is bad and thus doesn't appeal to enough people.

So, eventually, they decide on F2P. F2P is just another way to milk players for cash. Even lotro, with its hybrid method of payment (you could stay as a subscriber and get *everything* or go F2P and purchase stuff individually) started to milk proper subscribers for extra stuff. The worst thing is that F2P didn't even make lotro better. They tripled their revenue after F2P and didn't deliver us actual content.


So, if TOR goes the same way, I'm off. I don't think it will go that way, at least not for a long time, but production costs on this game were huge and I dont think they have enough subs to keep up with the content demands of the community.
Anstalt - lvl 50 valor 81 Shadow Consular

Currently retired due to poor design decisions within the game that have killed its longevity. Get rid of Hickman before he ruins the game completely!

Hyfy's Avatar


Hyfy
04.27.2012 , 04:18 AM | #202
Quote: Originally Posted by celebrei View Post
If F2P will solve the low population problem, then by all means yes, its not unheard of that big titles like
LOTRO AION and DCUO have all gone free to play in order to bolster their playerbase population and in extension their earnings so its not farfetched that SWTOR will follow the footsteps of these P2P to F2P mmos
Trust me on this one, I lived through the P2P to F2P transition. You end up bolstering the player base with the dregs of the video gaming world. You people think the entitlement mentality is bad now? I know I've said it a couple times now in this thread, but I watched a small but niche and loyal crowd in DDO get innondated with the lowest possible common denominator to the point of development time that was spent was left making the worst possible content in the life of that game so far. Trust me you don't want to do this.


Edit: For those who don't know DDO which is developed by Turbine, did the F2P model first there, THEN moved that business model over to their other game which is LoTRO.
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Slipfeed's Avatar


Slipfeed
04.27.2012 , 04:20 AM | #203
Something else I have to point out is that STO had F2P built into it's lifecycle.

There was a cash shop on day 1. Paying subscribers where expected to pay for certain ships / costumes / services / etc...

You had to pay real money for respecs... plus your 15.00 a month.

It was freaking horrible.

But they sold the boxes, and lifetimes subs anyway, got their development money back plus a little, chopped the staff by 75% or so and went f2p to start rolling in the profit at the early adopters expense.

It was a brilliant business move.

I think it worked because of the Trek license Trek people will spend 50.00 and pay lifetime subs for that game no matter what. I doubt they would have been able to pull it off without the established licensing tacked onto the mediocre game..

...wait a minute...

To be fair, saying trek has added features and content to the game since it went free to play is an understatement. There is probably 25% more content throughout the entire game than there was in the first month, spread across the leveling experience, available to everyone for free.

So it didn't end up being the devil.

rjkishida's Avatar


rjkishida
04.27.2012 , 04:30 AM | #204
if this was f2p I wouldn't play it. the endgame is boring as hell. I already quit DC Universe Online and their engame content and goals are practically the same.

Dekai's Avatar


Dekai
04.27.2012 , 04:39 AM | #205
I would move to another subscription based game if TOR started a F2P model. I have been lured into the "Free" To Play market too many times, and spent way more then 2 years subscription just to unlock content that was completed in a mere week with no updates to it.
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Hyfy's Avatar


Hyfy
04.27.2012 , 08:24 AM | #206
Quote: Originally Posted by anstalt View Post
I think I'd quit if it ever went F2P.

I stuck around in LOTRO after it wen't F2P (well, it had its hybrid model of payment) and I simply came to realise that going F2P means someone screwed up. In the case of lotro, the management screwed up by never ever advertising the game! The content was good, the polish was amazing, the world was well designed, in the 5 years its been out I only ever saw two adverts for the game (and that was on youtube). So, due to lack of advertising, they had less players and thus less money which sent them in to a downwards spiral.

In most other F2P games I see the same thing. Something has gone fundamentally wrong somewhere. Usually, its just that the game design and implementation is bad and thus doesn't appeal to enough people.

So, eventually, they decide on F2P. F2P is just another way to milk players for cash. Even lotro, with its hybrid method of payment (you could stay as a subscriber and get *everything* or go F2P and purchase stuff individually) started to milk proper subscribers for extra stuff. The worst thing is that F2P didn't even make lotro better. They tripled their revenue after F2P and didn't deliver us actual content.


So, if TOR goes the same way, I'm off. I don't think it will go that way, at least not for a long time, but production costs on this game were huge and I dont think they have enough subs to keep up with the content demands of the community.
In fairness to Turbune on the advertisement of both LoTRO and DDO Turbine was at the mercy of Atari as the parent company. There has actually been an ongoing lawsuit between Turbine and Atari because Atari was supposed to be handling the advertisement for both games and failed miserably in the realm of breach of contract. Some of it was alleviated when WB bought out Turbine (or it may of been Atari as a whole) and the rights to distribute the IP's of both series. I know Wizards of the Coasts at least feel much more comfortable with WB handling it over Atari. However with the F2P model that Turbine went to with a hybrid system, at least to me, still felt sub par to a sub system.


BTW, if you go to the DDO forums you may be able to search the forums to several of the rather large threads that covered the lawsuit with some back drop coverage from a few of the players that actually are lawyers with some really good info on it.
US. ARMY Military Police Corps

Sarcasm, a body's natural defense against stupid

testszag's Avatar


testszag
04.27.2012 , 08:28 AM | #207
Quote: Originally Posted by Niizmo View Post
Not a chance. F2P has ruined many mmo's. This game is worth the small amount each month.
this.
no f2p 4 me

Shingara's Avatar


Shingara
04.27.2012 , 08:32 AM | #208
Im not to kean on f2p games over subscription based game because they have one major fault, the devs only work on what sells the most, that means minority groups in the community dont get alot of dev time dedicated to them because they dont generate as much economic success as other groups.
Health Warning - Thread May Contain Nuts.
First, you can continue as a subscriber, which gives you unlimited access to all game features and future Game Updates at no additional charge. http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20120731

Calsetes's Avatar


Calsetes
04.27.2012 , 08:52 AM | #209
If the game was pay-to-play, sure. I like this game.

If the game was free-to-play, then it gets dicey.

Should the game be a true "free-to-play" game, as in "there is no subscription option available and everything 'cool' you must buy as microtransactions,'" then no. There's plenty of other games out there I could waste my time with.

Should the game be a hybrid-format game, as in "there is a free-to-play option that limits stuff, as well as a subscription-based option that gives you all the other stuff, and a microtransaction store for some services and maybe, maybe a few cosmetic things and 'subscriber-type stuff for rent,'" then sure. I'd still pay my $15 a month for the game as it is right now, and it'd give me an option to buy more character slots like I currently want.

I always favor hybrid-format over free-to-play. Free means they're actively looking for ways to gouge the money out of you, while hybrid-formats usually only do that if you're not paying a subscription fee.
The average person thinks he isn't.
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DevonDs's Avatar


DevonDs
04.27.2012 , 09:36 AM | #210
Quote: Originally Posted by Elysith View Post
Beside what has already been mentioned in this topic, another bad aspect of F2P MMO, is that as soon as one person is banned, he just create a new account and come back annoying peoples again.

P2P MMO at least can kick most of them out definitively because of the cost involved.
Really good point I hadn't even thought of that.
Quote: Originally Posted by John Riccitiello
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