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low CD items and their price

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
low CD items and their price

wolfmith's Avatar


wolfmith
04.22.2012 , 01:21 AM | #1
You guys really need to think about item costs relatively to their uses. At the moment, with the GTN prices and using only the 2 most expensive material, creating a grenade costs 14k credits. Who in their perfect state of mind will use a 14k item in a WZ they can only win 6k credits at most ?! nobody sells the useless items in GTN, at least in my server. I was selling them before but the mats were less expensive. Still I was selling them at 7,5k/un which is still insane comparing to money won in WZs. Imagine someone uses 4 grenades in a WZ. They'll have spent 56k credits... and could get 6k in return... Am I the only one thinking this is totally stupid ? The same goes with bio stims and medpacks... they're hell expensive, comparing to the price it costs to make a buff item that lasts for 2 hours of gameplay. You reduced the CD on grenades... yay.... still nobody will buy them. Please rethink item mats considering uses/gameplay time.
Slancerk | Wolfmith
Kyrar Kote Legions Of Lettow
Proud PvP Player -
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Grayseven's Avatar


Grayseven
04.22.2012 , 03:03 AM | #2
Not really sure what your complaint is here.

If you are buying materials from the GTN to make consumables for personal use you should expect to pay through the nose. Materials prices are always higher on the GTN than they are gathering them yourself due to the demand players leveling crafting put on materials.

Crafted items nearly always sell for prices cheaper than the components themselves would sell for due to material demand.

It comes down to a few things, mostly whether or not you want credits instead of consumables you can use in WZ's and whether or not you really need those consumables in WZ's. Also, it seems like you expect to make a credit profit from WZ's. In my experience, PvP is a credit loss which is made up for by other rewards that credits can't get you.

It seems like your outlook on WZ's is a bit skewed.
Sometimes you narfle the Garthok, sometimes the Garthok narfles you.

wolfmith's Avatar


wolfmith
04.24.2012 , 11:08 AM | #3
I'm saying that, since they changed crew skills, the price on the mats increased and with the mat quantities to create grenades, the price goes up to the sky. I use my reusable, but if I want to sell the other ones, the price is insane for something that's supposed to be used 2/3 times in a WZ. And that's only usable in PvP, it's completely idiot to use it on pve.
Slancerk | Wolfmith
Kyrar Kote Legions Of Lettow
Proud PvP Player -
981h of playtime (26/05) powered by ASUS ROG G74SX

XElementalX's Avatar


XElementalX
04.24.2012 , 11:29 AM | #4
a) You can use lower level grenades. They are cheaper. Not exactly as good as the highlevel ones, but close enough to make a difference in pvp.

b) That said, I still agree in principle.

The component-price for grenades is high enough that it creates an additional imbalance between the "rich" players and the "poor". The credit reward for an hour of pvp at level 50 is too low to cover the price of grenades in addition to 2-hour stims. It´s not even close.

c) The grenades now grant an additonal AE-CC with a 3 minute cooldown. That´s a balance-breaking ability in many dueling-situations and also in many critical situations in Warzones. E.g.: 4-8 people using grenades on the group around the enemy ball carrier in a match of Huttball can break any random team and most premades who don´t use grenades.
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Seront's Avatar


Seront
04.24.2012 , 12:01 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Grayseven View Post
Not really sure what your complaint is here.

If you are buying materials from the GTN to make consumables for personal use you should expect to pay through the nose. Materials prices are always higher on the GTN than they are gathering them yourself due to the demand players leveling crafting put on materials.

Crafted items nearly always sell for prices cheaper than the components themselves would sell for due to material demand.

It comes down to a few things, mostly whether or not you want credits instead of consumables you can use in WZ's and whether or not you really need those consumables in WZ's. Also, it seems like you expect to make a credit profit from WZ's. In my experience, PvP is a credit loss which is made up for by other rewards that credits can't get you.

It seems like your outlook on WZ's is a bit skewed.
I'm sorry, but you have a misunderstanding of basic economics. If you gather materials out in the world, they are not 'free.' There is an opportunity cost. If you *could have* sold them on the GTN for a certain amount, that is their value. Thus, it does not matter how he acquires those mats. The cost associated with making an item is based inherently on the opportunity cost of the requisite materials.

The OP's concern is a legitimate one. The effective cost (and I'm sure it varies wildly from server to server) of consumables is very, very high.

Optionalboss's Avatar


Optionalboss
04.24.2012 , 02:20 PM | #6
Understanding economics or not, I can see the point behind the firing back, and I don't honestly understand the OP's problem.

If you go to the market to buy mats, any mats, you have to be ready to pay for it. If the costs are steep... you have to invest in farming the materials yourself or go without- that's simply a business call on your part.

Coming here and complaining that people are selling goods for higher prices won't technically help, because you made the call not to buy the items and then complain about the cost when you can do something about it. You've told us you like to use grenades in WZs and yet come here to demand that the people that provide them lower the cost simply because you don't want to pay it?

I see a couple of flaws here:

1) An assumption that people are only going to buy something if they can get the cost back and then some based on an outcome of something completely unrelated (the WZ in question). Some will make the decision to spend credits, period, and not base it on the 6k limit

2) The people that will create those items are in it to provide something to the buyer (you) without regard to their investment in time, materials, and own credit health... here's a comparison that may or may not work for you:
- That would be like asking someone who does Bio to sell their stims, pacs, etc for end-game based on the OPs credit drops... and not on what goes into making the item itself OR
- Someone has mismatched crew skills and complains when you can't make prototype gear because your diplomacy doesn't return luxury fabrics and the ones on the GTN are overpriced.


The game is designed around the fact that you are to have comparable and hopefully compatible gathering crew skills for your actually crafting skill, it actually limits you to only one craft for some of these very reasons. Unless you can make the grenades yourself by farming your own materials, the cost will just have to be whatever cost you come across. That is the state of the GTN... your wanted use of grenades will have little effect on the market unless you start making the grenades yourself and/or begin selling them or their parts on the market.

Grayseven's Avatar


Grayseven
04.25.2012 , 09:33 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Seront View Post
I'm sorry, but you have a misunderstanding of basic economics. If you gather materials out in the world, they are not 'free.' There is an opportunity cost. If you *could have* sold them on the GTN for a certain amount, that is their value. Thus, it does not matter how he acquires those mats. The cost associated with making an item is based inherently on the opportunity cost of the requisite materials.

The OP's concern is a legitimate one. The effective cost (and I'm sure it varies wildly from server to server) of consumables is very, very high.
Game economics are not real world economics, so don't even go there.

If credits are the goal, you have options. You can gather mats for free (because time doesn't give you credits for nothing) and sell them, or turn them into items and sell them.

If you want an item. You have options. You can gather the mats for free (again, because you aren't paying anything because time in game does NOT have an intrinsic value) and sell them for credits and buy the item, or you can gather the mats for free and craft the item yourself, or you can buy the mats and craft the item yourself.

If you gather your own mats and make an item, that item has cost you time, but not credits (unless you gather through missions). No credits have left your account. It doesn't matter what the potential value of those materials is since that value is unrealized until someone purchases them for credits and thereby set their value.

Real world economics and game economics, while similar, do not equate the same when it comes to values. Again, if you are buying mats to make an item, you are doing it wrong.
Sometimes you narfle the Garthok, sometimes the Garthok narfles you.

Seront's Avatar


Seront
04.25.2012 , 11:02 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Grayseven View Post
Game economics are not real world economics, so don't even go there.

If credits are the goal, you have options. You can gather mats for free (because time doesn't give you credits for nothing) and sell them, or turn them into items and sell them.

If you want an item. You have options. You can gather the mats for free (again, because you aren't paying anything because time in game does NOT have an intrinsic value) and sell them for credits and buy the item, or you can gather the mats for free and craft the item yourself, or you can buy the mats and craft the item yourself.

If you gather your own mats and make an item, that item has cost you time, but not credits (unless you gather through missions). No credits have left your account. It doesn't matter what the potential value of those materials is since that value is unrealized until someone purchases them for credits and thereby set their value.

Real world economics and game economics, while similar, do not equate the same when it comes to values. Again, if you are buying mats to make an item, you are doing it wrong.
I don't know how else to explain this to you, but your views on this are awfully simplistic, and to put it bluntly, just plain wrong. Do some reading and educate yourself about what economics is and isn't before you try claiming it doesn't apply here. Frankly, I don't think you actually understand what the term means.

belialle's Avatar


belialle
04.25.2012 , 11:20 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Grayseven View Post
Game economics are not real world economics, so don't even go there.

If credits are the goal, you have options. You can gather mats for free (because time doesn't give you credits for nothing) and sell them, or turn them into items and sell them.

If you want an item. You have options. You can gather the mats for free (again, because you aren't paying anything because time in game does NOT have an intrinsic value) and sell them for credits and buy the item, or you can gather the mats for free and craft the item yourself, or you can buy the mats and craft the item yourself.

If you gather your own mats and make an item, that item has cost you time, but not credits (unless you gather through missions). No credits have left your account. It doesn't matter what the potential value of those materials is since that value is unrealized until someone purchases them for credits and thereby set their value.

Real world economics and game economics, while similar, do not equate the same when it comes to values. Again, if you are buying mats to make an item, you are doing it wrong.
Here we have someone who doesn't get opportunity costs. This is not good advice.....It's just way too simplistic. This poster displays a gross misunderstanding of opportunity costs.

SpatterJack's Avatar


SpatterJack
04.26.2012 , 02:06 AM | #10
What we are seeing here is a classic example of the economic distortions that occur in the vast majority of MMO's. EVE-Online is about the only exception I know of.

When high-level players can earn vastly more credits than lower-level players, and there are a good number of high-level players in the game, then items sold by players tend to be priced according to what a high-level players can afford. This situation is exacerbated in a game where alts are common, because the low-level alts are essentially playing with the "high-level wallet" of their main character.

Raw materials for crafting are usually the worst example of this economic distortion. A high-level main rolls a new alt and wants to level-up the crew skills on that alt. Let's say it takes 1 hour to gather a pile of 99 Desh and 99 Silica. If an L50 character can earn 40K per hour (from selling trash loot to a vendor and/or doing dailies), then that player would be stupid not to pay 10K for a 99-stack of Desh or Silica.

This is the concept of "opportunity cost". Which is a better way to spend your 1-hour of ingame time ? Gathering "free" materials, or buying them from someone else on the GTN for half the credits you could have earned in that 1 hour through earning credits some other way ?

Gathering resources is a slow manual process in SWTOR. I have seen very few players that are obviously on a purely gathering expedition. In fact, I can't recall seeing any on the 5 worlds I've visited so far. Most people seem to scavenge when questing brings them near an appropriate node. So they are gathering low volumes, which are most likely for personal use. Again, why spend 1 hour doing a harvesting circuit when questing will probably gain you 2 character levels in that time ?