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What do you think about 1.2 and operation accessibility?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
What do you think about 1.2 and operation accessibility?

Dacadus's Avatar


Dacadus
04.24.2012 , 09:29 AM | #41
Lol this thread is so full of fail.

It's so obvious the majority of these players all came from WoW. I'm all for people seeing the content but if you want the toys the big boys are playing with you need to put the work in. People seem to forget that EC is t2 content and just because it has a story mode difficulty doesn't erase that fact.

All these people need to figure out what they actually want. Do you want the gear the big kids are playing with or do you wanna see the content because let's face it these casuals flip flop more than any politician.

Here's a quick fix for all the casuals:

Nerf EC story (and all upcoming story modes) into the ground but make it only drop Columi instead of Rakata/etcetc. That way the people get to see they story/content.

Here's a quick fix for those wanting the gear:

GRIND YOUR FACE INTO THE BOSS AND EARN IT! Man do I miss the days of attunement and even as far back as raiding in EQ. WoW did nothing but breed a bunch of lazy whiners and it's sad to see people not wanting to put work in to accomplish something.
GM of Nerfed
Dreshdae Cantina
www.nerfed-guild.enjin.com

Typeslice's Avatar


Typeslice
04.24.2012 , 10:00 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Reryn View Post
Will the average player continue to play a game where they can't complete new content or have access to top end gear?

That's the question BW should be pondering. It doesn't matter if the top 10% of players who run orginized raids find the game easy. That's what nightmare mode is for, to get extra gear as a reward for running extra hard content.
Most of the people who play this game are casual. The casual player should be able to complete operation and hard mode flashpoints with their friends. They should eventually be able to complete hard mode operations to get top rated gear after a month or two of gear progression.

The current state of the game restricts the average casual player, by far the majority, from having access to end game content and gear.

The best players and best raiders should have a challenge. For them we have nightmare mode and yes, I agree, it should be really hard. Much harder then it is now. The problem is hard mode ops. The top players want it to be elite player exclusive transistion grounds and the casual player wants access to the best gear.

Hard mode, has to be casual friendly. Why? I'll tell you why, because people will not play a game where they are excluded and in a game like this, gear is everything. The same goes for rated warzones. If you restrict average players from the best gear. They wil not praticipate for very long. Who would?

Many casual people hung on just long enough to see some of the changes made in 1.2. What did they see? They saw that they will not be doing the new operation. They see that very soon they will be given a warzone rating and will be told they can't have PvP gear if they don't add up to the pro player.

IMO, BW has gone the wrong direction with this update. I think it will effect the overall player base and we will see a huge dip in subscribers. BW should have made nightmare modes harder and the new hard mode operation accessible.

Everything I have said is anecdotal, am I right? What are your opinions on the new content and will people stay to play it? I don't think they will.
BW has already stated that Story Mode is for casuals, Hard Mode/Nightmare mode for raiding guilds. I don't see the issue. Casuals do not need the same gear because they are not operating at the same difficulty level. The self-entitlement of the casual gamer is what has killed so many MMOs before this one.
Xaph'an / A'baddon - GM of Undercon
The Shadowlands
http://undercon.guildlaunch.com

Codek's Avatar


Codek
04.24.2012 , 10:12 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Typeslice View Post
BW has already stated that Story Mode is for casuals, Hard Mode/Nightmare mode for raiding guilds. I don't see the issue. Casuals do not need the same gear because they are not operating at the same difficulty level. The self-entitlement of the casual gamer is what has killed so many MMOs before this one.
I'm still trying to figure out when the term casual raiders = easy mode? That's not casual raiding, that's not even raiding....

Hardcore has always been defined as guilds the strive for server/world firsts and often take time out of there lives to achieve this. They will often clear all content within days to weeks of it's release and then casually farm until the next update.

If your guild is anything but this, then you are casual raiding guild. They spread across all levels of raiding from story to HM and even clearing NiM after a long enough time. The only thing separating these guilds is the players.

Now, to say story mode is for the casual raiders and needs to be nerf is an insult to any guild that has and is currently working to clear it. To think that a casual guild doesn't have the skills to approach a challenge is disgusting. This is why so many will turn to that statement and simply say "Get better". Because that's all it takes.

P.S. can someone fill me in on what happened to WoW after BC? Everyone keeps pointing to that as the leading cause of this plague of "easy".
~Codek

hulkweazel's Avatar


hulkweazel
04.24.2012 , 10:24 AM | #44
We just finished clearing SM Denova last night. It was ridiculously easy after we figured out the mechanics. I am almost positive that once the strategies for Denova become well-known, pugs and extreme casual players will have no problem clearing it if they've already did EV/KP.

It's been less that two weeks since the content has been released. Not all the strategies for it are even known, and we've encountered quite a few guides with incorrect information or bad strategies.

The problem is that people seem to have a sense of entitlement and self-worth, that if they can't do it in the first couple tries then it's too difficult. I feel the OP is in this same camp, as he seems obsessed with Denova's difficulty.

Typeslice's Avatar


Typeslice
04.24.2012 , 10:31 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Codek View Post
I'm still trying to figure out when the term casual raiders = easy mode? That's not casual raiding, that's not even raiding....

Hardcore has always been defined as guilds the strive for server/world firsts and often take time out of there lives to achieve this. They will often clear all content within days to weeks of it's release and then casually farm until the next update.

If your guild is anything but this, then you are casual raiding guild. They spread across all levels of raiding from story to HM and even clearing NiM after a long enough time. The only thing separating these guilds is the players.

Now, to say story mode is for the casual raiders and needs to be nerf is an insult to any guild that has and is currently working to clear it. To think that a casual guild doesn't have the skills to approach a challenge is disgusting. This is why so many will turn to that statement and simply say "Get better". Because that's all it takes.

P.S. can someone fill me in on what happened to WoW after BC? Everyone keeps pointing to that as the leading cause of this plague of "easy".
I consider my guild a casual raiding guild (10/10 Nightmare) and we cleared story mode EC before the first lockout after 1.2. We don't have a set progression group and let everyone raid. HM in EC is a nice challenge for us - hence my original statement stands: Hard Mode/Nightmare is for raiding guilds.
Xaph'an / A'baddon - GM of Undercon
The Shadowlands
http://undercon.guildlaunch.com

Typeslice's Avatar


Typeslice
04.24.2012 , 10:41 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Codek View Post
I'm still trying to figure out when the term casual raiders = easy mode? That's not casual raiding, that's not even raiding....

Hardcore has always been defined as guilds the strive for server/world firsts and often take time out of there lives to achieve this. They will often clear all content within days to weeks of it's release and then casually farm until the next update.

If your guild is anything but this, then you are casual raiding guild. They spread across all levels of raiding from story to HM and even clearing NiM after a long enough time. The only thing separating these guilds is the players.

Now, to say story mode is for the casual raiders and needs to be nerf is an insult to any guild that has and is currently working to clear it. To think that a casual guild doesn't have the skills to approach a challenge is disgusting. This is why so many will turn to that statement and simply say "Get better". Because that's all it takes.

P.S. can someone fill me in on what happened to WoW after BC? Everyone keeps pointing to that as the leading cause of this plague of "easy".
The confusion may lie in the fact that I see casuals and casual raiders as 2 different groups.
Xaph'an / A'baddon - GM of Undercon
The Shadowlands
http://undercon.guildlaunch.com

Valhalyn's Avatar


Valhalyn
04.24.2012 , 10:41 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Codek View Post

P.S. can someone fill me in on what happened to WoW after BC? Everyone keeps pointing to that as the leading cause of this plague of "easy".

AoE fest dungeons that took 15 minutes to clear in Blues. Boss Mechanics went from 3-5 per boss down to 1-2 per boss. LFG Tool, which I actually enjoyed but only made the game easier and allowed people that were "less dedicated". The heavy reward system from that LFG tool just for running a daily dungeon which I honestly believe they need to implement here for Casuals.

With an LFG reward system in place those casuals can grind out story mode raid gear without stepping into the raids. Then try there hand at HM when they have enough and be rejected, cry for nerfs and wait til the next raid is released to get that nerf so they can upgrade to the next tier of gear.

WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED AT THE END OF BC.

elvavwiel's Avatar


elvavwiel
04.24.2012 , 11:10 AM | #48
PVP: You can get battlemaster gear with the only restriction being lvl 50, the upgrade from battlemaster to warhero isn't overly big.

PVE: What most pve'rs might forget is that for a measly 20k per equipment piece you can get a rating 126 (i believe its slightly higher in rating then centurion/tionese) lvl 50 blue set of gear that offers you enough bonuses to do pre 1.2 normal mode operations without difficulty and possibly even do hardmodes that aren't soa.

Explosive conflict: yes its a big step up from the other raids, however the rewards are the hardmode rewards from the older raids + commendations that you can exchange for gear that has higher level mods then rakatta. So if you have a tionese armor you could theoretically upgrade it to better stats then ye olde columi/rakatta with set bonuses by just doing the normal mode and the black hole dailies.

Tip1: Before complaining, read up on all the guides posted by guilds that completed the hardmodes and do the normal modes using hard mode tactics as usually that can help. Research a flashpoint/operation by going to youtube to see how others do it and try to plan accordingly.

Tip2: Mentioned before but check to see if the entry level 20k per piece pvp gear isn't better then what you currently have.

Tip3: If you saved up warzone commendations while you levelled or do atleast some pvp you can get a tier 3 weapon for 1550 warzone commendations -> Battlemaster Weapon.

Tip4: Something that i have noticed helps sometimes, switch arround the healers/tanks or dps their main targets, sometimes for some silly reason a healer1 does better at healing spot2 and vice versa. Same with tanks, if tank1 and 2 are heaving weird problems see if switching their spots doesn't improve your chances. Dps wise its sometimes better to actually sometimes have them hold back their dps a bit before going all out so that the initial % triggers of bossSkillX and bossSkillY are a bit delayed.

Tip5: Keep a cool head, have fun, if you take it all too seriously you'll get bored soon enough.

Yes the new content is challenging even on story mode, but do you really want to clear everything on the first day and then get bored, instead of slowly but surely progressing towards completion and being more satisfied with yourself because you managed to finally defeat that one boss you got stuck on?
Isra ~ 60 Sage: Jack of all trades, master of none.