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Nerf Denova?


Andex's Avatar


Andex
04.23.2012 , 07:32 AM | #181
Quote: Originally Posted by krinaman View Post
It really sounds like L2Play to me. Along with dump your friends if they need to L2Play. Then add in a bit of keep playing the content even if you don't like it for good measure. Nevermind it being a long winded pompous insult revolving around an absurd notion that if one person can beat a raid it's not too hard.
Your perception does not equal my intention. When you figure out the difference between the two, I imagine you'll be able to take it for what it is. I believe the thread is a question about whether or not they should nerf Denova. My post addressed that. Your post just seems to be some attempt, albeit poor, at exactly what you've attempted to accuse me of doing: insulting.

I'd say stay on topic, but that seems a bit of a stretch.

Would you mind explaining to me what is overly difficult about keeping two bosses separate, staying at a certain range from bosses, positioning your tanks correctly, not standing on AoE's, and any of the other mechanics that are involved in the Operation?

I'd very much like to hear why it's hard, not just "it's hard". Or have you even stepped into the instance?
Doko prek anuda ten?

Tharzon's Avatar


Tharzon
04.23.2012 , 07:48 AM | #182
We're finally 4/4 in Denova. I'll say this, we were a middle of the pack WoW guild. The kinds that killed 25m Lich King in normal at about 15% buff but stalled around Putricide/Lich King in 25m Heroic.

We were able to beat each encounter within a few tries each including I think 4 tries on Kephess. IMO, that means the story mode content is well tuned. Its on par with Hardmode EV/KP and maybe just a smidge tougher. I would hope they wait a bit before they nerf the content. The patch isn't even a month old!

Honestly, if you've done any WoW raiding since WOTLK on, none of the mechanics should be new. Maybe the puzzle boss but the new part is the easiest part of that fight. It still boils down to killing streaming adds and occasional burst dps phases on larger, quick-enrage adds with a final phase boss with a threat reset. Standard fare.

Enjoy the challenge. If it were too easy, those "leaving" over difficulty would leave anyway in a few weeks claiming "nothing to do BW!" MMO players are impossible to please.
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Grimnoire's Avatar


Grimnoire
04.23.2012 , 08:00 AM | #183
I personally found Denova challenging but not unduly so, I'm glad to see this level of challenge in a normal mode.

I wouldn't be against an easier "raid finder" type mode but I'm glad the challenge level for the 1.2 raid at its starting difficulty is as high as it is.

One of WoWs great mistakes was making all of its previous content irrelevant after each new patch, if the difficulty is this hard and you need gear from previous ops to even attempt it then people will continue running the older ops which creates a vibrant end game community. Much preferable in my opinion to a few million people constantly running the same raid tier each week with a few dozen other raids sitting empty.....


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Andex's Avatar


Andex
04.23.2012 , 08:06 AM | #184
Quote: Originally Posted by Grimnoire View Post
I personally found Denova challenging but not unduly so, I'm glad to see this level of challenge in a normal mode.

I wouldn't be against an easier "raid finder" type mode but I'm glad the challenge level for the 1.2 raid at its starting difficulty is as high as it is.

One of WoWs great mistakes was making all of its previous content irrelevant after each new patch, if the difficulty is this hard and you need gear from previous ops to even attempt it then people will continue running the older ops which creates a vibrant end game community. Much preferable in my opinion to a few million people constantly running the same raid tier each week with a few dozen other raids sitting empty.....
My progression group doesn't step into the old raids as much anymore, except when we're taking an alt or a few new members through to help them experience a taste of end-game and get prepped for running their own groups, but I think they gave a great incentive by providing Black Hole commendations from Nightmare KP. It gives us a reason to revisit it, especially in terms of the earpiece/implant upgrades.

That and I still don't have that mount .
Doko prek anuda ten?

RichyYoung's Avatar


RichyYoung
04.23.2012 , 08:13 AM | #185
Quote: Originally Posted by krinaman View Post
You guys just don't listen, at all.

I don't doubt that if people put the time in they would eventually get the first boss down just like I did.

What you guys seem to refuse to understand is that some people, dare I say most people, just don't find that to be fun. Since these people play games to have fun it really makes no sense for them to spend their night not having fun in the name of "earning" their gear.

So instead they will find something they do find fun to do, even if that is another game.

Then, and this is the part you guys really need to understand, the devs are going to see that nobody is running the raids and do something about it. The first option will be a across the board nerf into the ground of all modes. Ala WoW, Rift, etc. The next option will be to cut back on raid content and concentrate on content the "casuals" will actually play.

The best thing for raiders is that the story mode thing works and keeps enough of the population using the raids so that hard mode can stay as is for the raiders. Demanding that story mode be for raiders as well isn't going to end well for raiders.
I like what this guy said theres too many hard cores posting in this thread saying too keep story mode as hard as a hardmode.. You simply have no concept of casual gamers i manage to get maybe 1 - 3 hours a night online 3 - 5 times a week if im lucky. Most of which is crafting and dailys and we try to arramge a guild run 3 times a week thats if the 20 odd people in our guild ever all show up when schedualled to do so. We dont get angry becuase thats casual guilds, its just a shame when we tried for instance the new flashpoint on hm that we blew out so massivly on the first boss that the majority of the guild now refuses to do the new end game content. We did story mode but as said its pretty easy and the loot isnt very good to warrent doing it more than once for practice.. which is maybe exactly what story mode needs to be.

All im saying is that maybe we casual gamers have no concept of the hardcore guilds and visa versa

Andex's Avatar


Andex
04.23.2012 , 08:22 AM | #186
Quote: Originally Posted by RichyYoung View Post
I like what this guy said theres too many hard cores posting in this thread saying too keep story mode as hard as a hardmode.. You simply have no concept of casual gamers i manage to get maybe 1 - 3 hours a night online 3 - 5 times a week if im lucky.

All im saying is that maybe we casual gamers have no concept of the hardcore guilds and visa versa
Story Mode Denova =/= Hard Mode Denova. There has been no statement in this thread asking for Story Mode to be elevated to the difficulty of Hard Mode. This thread is concerning whether or not the Operation's difficulty should be decreased.

I'm sorry your guild had a rough time of it and it's unfortunate that the players no longer want to do that content after that. There are no guilds that went into it for the first time and cleared it flawlessly. A lot of the PTS guilds spent hours figuring out the way to best complete the content.

Don't get discouraged. The key to completing the content is being positive and progressive, even if the time period you're working with is different than most. If you only have so many hours to play a night, then it might take longer to complete the content than players that have more time to play with. You've got something to look forward to: an unfinished challenge.
Doko prek anuda ten?

Grobluk's Avatar


Grobluk
04.23.2012 , 09:12 AM | #187
Quote: Originally Posted by Reryn View Post
I agree with everything except, that, people wont just stop raiding. They will quit. The servers where getting bare before with the current level of difficulty. Since BW went with making the ops harder, that pretty much killed the game.
Let me get this straight. You think KP and EV were too hard to begin with?

Freeborne's Avatar


Freeborne
04.23.2012 , 09:17 AM | #188
I think it's a challenge, and I like that aspect of it.

I don't like that it drops Rakata and Black Hole Coms though. It's not consistent with the difficulty. Each boss should at least have a chance to drop the next tier of gear.
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Leovinus's Avatar


Leovinus
04.23.2012 , 09:34 AM | #189
Quote: Originally Posted by Grobluk View Post
Let me get this straight. You think KP and EV were too hard to begin with?
That's not even close to how it read to me.

I can only assume the OP was talking only about story mode EC, so let me interpret from that angle. I think, honestly that EV/KP normal mode were nearly perfect, for their intended audience. They required you to start thinking about positioning, movement, and some amounts of coordination. KP increased that, especially on Bonethrasher, J&S and Fabricator. Here's the thing. I think that the story modes shouldn't be a major step up from Tier 1 to Tier 2 as so many here are arguing. Minor? Sure, but right now, it's a pretty significant step up from even HM for rewards that are not worth that.

Story modes should be for 3 things. 1. To see the story. 2. To introduce new people to the raid game. And 3. To allow people to gear up to the point that they can go join up with a progression guild if they want to, without being a lead weight around their neck.

1 and 2 are about the fun and coolness factor of the "big" fights, and that's why EC needs to be PUG friendly. I think I've only seen one person in the several threads about this claim that they did it as the intended audience, and they were a "casual" guild in appropriate gear, not a true pug. Most of those yelling are neglecting to mention their own gear and progression level, or are obviously overgeared for the content.

#3 is about the long term health of the raiding game. If you don't have a path like this, you end up with an increasingly small subset of the population growing more and more distant from the larger, more casual/new player crowd (but with some "diamonds in the rough" who WOULD make good raiders), with nearly no way to bridge the gap. And being forced to inbreed recruit. Many games make this mistake.

Casual raid forces may, but PUGs will almost definitely not run the Ops enough times to get everyone geared out in the gear, so the next tier can't be balanced around being fully kitted in the previous stuff (with the possible exception of EC and columi since it's obtainable from FPs sans MH - LI?).

Bah, this ended up being much longer and windier than I anticipated, and I think I still missed something.

stiksen's Avatar


stiksen
04.23.2012 , 09:36 AM | #190
I just think they should nerf some of the bosses on story mode and let people who like challenges do Hardmode and Nightmare.