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Your technology needs help... lots of help... lots and LOTS of help. :(

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Suggestion Box
Your technology needs help... lots of help... lots and LOTS of help. :(

GlowstickSwinger's Avatar


GlowstickSwinger
04.22.2012 , 10:48 PM | #1
TL;CR Breakdown:

Problems
  • Technical needs are lowest priority, which causes the following:
  • Network I/O is abusive Send/read bloat.
  • Network I/O may have blocking operations. Send/Read bloat.
  • Client has blocking operations. Read bloat.
  • Client loading screen isn't always away from the play state. Read bloat.
  • Client physics engine is authoritative regarding movement. Send bloat.
  • The more people cluster together, the more packets and the more data they are putting out, the more your bandwidth costs sore and resources dwindle as you expand.

Solutions
  • Don't let marketing run the show... they never have any idea what they are doing. It's Star Wars. It markets itself for God's sake.
  • Set aside time to fix technical debt.
  • Prioritize performance issues over all else until things stabilize, primarily, the network I/O and the asset loading strategy.
  • Reduce your poly count on the client.
  • Back off any 3D engine features for a bit. You're not going to outshine where Xbox was three years ago and it's an MMO. You can get away with some crappy graphics.
  • Devs, leads, PMs, and the CTO needs more spinal fortitude to push back against other department priorities instead of being driven to cutting corners and create more technical debt.
  • Make HeroScript execution preserve lexical scope for async callbacks. (LOL good luck with that!)

THIS IS WHERE TL;CR ENDS. YOU CAN NOW GO BACK TO YOUR 140 CHARACTER POEMS.

To see more about the programmer in question, check him out! http://www.twitter.com/12dcode

To see the packet analysis of the network I/O, click on Show!

Spoiler


To read the drill-down into the HeroEngine network optimization itself, click on Show!

Spoiler


To read the original scathing rant that kick started this whole shebang, click on the SHOW button! Free bunnies!

Spoiler

GlowstickSwinger's Avatar


GlowstickSwinger
04.22.2012 , 10:50 PM | #2
Apparently, I can't say ******s.

AMERICA! **** YEAH!

ConradLionhart's Avatar


ConradLionhart
04.22.2012 , 10:54 PM | #3
This isn't some big secret. Yes for some reason, SW:TOR uses a lot of resources, and works my AMD graphics card to 80C, as if I was playing Skyrim at max settings. But it doesn't have the quality graphics of Skyrim. In fact, Skyrim doesn't even push my graphics card that hard at max settings.

The animations are also not that smooth. An example would be if I used an ability on a mount, there would be a brief screen freeze. WoW did not have such problems 7 years ago when I played, so for some reason this engine is clunky despite not having high-end quality graphics.

The game is playable now, but I hope in future they will fix all performance problems.

GlowstickSwinger's Avatar


GlowstickSwinger
04.22.2012 , 10:58 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by ConradLionhart View Post
This isn't some big secret. Yes for some reason, SW:TOR uses a lot of resources, and works my AMD graphics card to 80C, as if I was playing Skyrim at max settings. But it doesn't have the quality graphics of Skyrim. In fact, Skyrim doesn't even push my graphics card that hard at max settings.

The animations are also not that smooth. An example would be if I used an ability on a mount, there would be a brief screen freeze. WoW did not have such problems 7 years ago when I played, so for some reason this engine is clunky despite not having high-end quality graphics.

The game is playable now, but I hope in future they will fix all performance problems.
WoW did have these problems years ago and they solved them by making everything async. Their reliance on blocking calls damn near killed them, too.

WoW intentionally uses low poly models to solve most of it's performance problems and resource usage. It's also the most important factor that allows players to move from zone to zone seamlessly. Low poly = less client RAM.

sindorella's Avatar


sindorella
04.22.2012 , 11:20 PM | #5
Well, yea its obviously not a big secret, and probably like you said their biggest problem.

I know I dont have a good computer but, i am able to run well WoW with high graphics whitout laging. It takes me some seconds to finish a loading bar.

In Swtor, some planets like Corelia literally takes 5 mins to download with everything at very low. So pretty much, when i am on these planets, i cannot Queue for a Wz even if i want to) because its WAY too long to dl the map. This problem actually stopped me from leveling alts.because i love to PVp and lvl at the same time and i am not patient enough to wait 5 mins between each wz.

I agree with your post even tho i dont think they are gonna change anything soon.

GlowstickSwinger's Avatar


GlowstickSwinger
04.22.2012 , 11:26 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by sindorella View Post
I agree with your post even tho i dont think they are gonna change anything soon.
They certainly won't fix it. CEOs gonna listen to marketing 17 times out of 10.

So screw it, these loading screens are MARKETING OPPORTUNITIES. Think of all the paid advertising you could put up there. Guaranteed eyeballs. Rolling in the dough. That idea is free of charge, BioWare. More ideas will cost you $150k a year + benes.

Grandma's Avatar


Grandma
04.23.2012 , 01:25 AM | #7
Only ever takes me about 5 seconds to get past a loading screen. I have a 3year old GTX295 and spent some additional cash on getting some extra RAM (12GB worth DDR3). I use the RAMdisk software/method. GF uses a 560GTi and only has about 6GB RAM, takes her about 10-15 seconds tops. When you spend 30mins-1hr on most planets at a time, those seconds aren't so bad. Could be a little more annoying for constant WZ loading, but considering you'll have to wait 2mins to start for everyone to get in anyway, it's no big deal.

Nice go at pointing out the more technical aspects and the reasons for the performance hit, is much better than most do. I'm just not sure that those seconds mean that much in the grand scheme of things. Would rather other issues were fixed or more things added as time goes on.
Artula(Guardian)[50]-Grandma(Commando)[50]-Serte(Sage)-Vente(Shadow)-Tyug(Scoundrel)
INC Republic SWTOR Guild, Member of the RISA Alliance - A mature and social group of guilds (INC, Roses of Dawn, ShadowFax Alliance)
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Death_Sentenced's Avatar


Death_Sentenced
04.23.2012 , 10:54 PM | #8
BUMP......

As a game designer myself, I could not have said it better my friend.

I sincerely hope a "Protocal Droid" will forward this thread onto the appropriate department LAWLZ!
DEATH SENTENCE Guild Master
"Through Power......Victory"
PVE / Raid / Endgame GUILD
Corellian Run Server

Dezzi's Avatar


Dezzi
04.23.2012 , 11:02 PM | #9
This is genius. Thanks for sharing, OP!
Ebon Hawk (RP)
Peace | Knowledge | Serenity | the Force
I'm a Jedi because the galaxy needs Jedi.

NomikonAK's Avatar


NomikonAK
04.23.2012 , 11:34 PM | #10
Marketing department missed the opportunity to cross-merchandise an Old Republic edition OCZ SSD. "Cut your loading times to 45 seconds!"