The end of the arguement. Is SWTOR in decline? Can it be saved?

RIFT had server transfers REALLY REALLY soon after launch. Also, in 2012, after 10+ years of MMORPG etc it should have been available the day of launch. They knew it was needed; if they didn't they are even more stupid than I originally thought.

The problem isn't SW:TOR, because in reality SW:TOR is the best MMO"RPG" to date.

The problem is in the MMO"RPG" design.

WoW was a great move forward from EQ and opened the door of MMO"RPG" to a lot of new people, but the simple fact is a huge number of us like the MMO aspect and the RPG aspect, but we really don't like the way MMO and RPG currently mesh.

GW2 sounds like it is going to solve some of the things a lot of people do not like about MMO"RPG" I'll believe it when I see it.

I personally did not get to play EQ, I did play a little Ultima Online and I did at least a few months in every MMO"RPG" from City of Heros/Villians to WoW to GW (it counts damn it) and everything in between while maintaining my D2 addiction for going on 14 years; I've beaten literally hundreds of console games starting from NES all the way through to my over priced PS3. I've been playing video games for going on 30 years and on top of that I am computer programmer and have made a few video games.

That said I don't think MMO's can last in this current WoW/SWTOR/RIFT modal things are going to change. People don't actually want to pay to do dailies every day etc, but MMO"RPG" is seen by a lot of gamers as the top of the food chain in terms of content, challenge, and accomplishment. Why? because of the ridiculous amount of time sinks, money sinks, gating and other BS that prevent me from walking up PWNing the *********** game and walking away like I do most console/computer games.

I considered buying credits again today because I don't want to grind credits/gold/wtfe anymore 10 years of mindless grinding IS ENOUGH; unfortunatly I don't want to support hackers or get banned so I will just stop paying to work for SWTOR and be happy instead. So with my third level 50 done today with no sense of accomplishment (because it took no skill or effort to speak of) and no sense of having "won" anything I ask myself why am I going level the sniper from lvl 25 up to 50? To GET THAT OP CARROT er BUFF -> NO

MMO"RPG" is on the decline and should not be saved something better needs to replace this crap. GW2?

And yet, it's coming sooner than any other MMO before, MMOs that had far worse after-launch dip. If it's late here, when it's sooner than any other MMO and still has more players per server than even WoW had, then there isn't an MMO in history that wasn't "late", by your definition.

So, that means, it's perfectly normal.

If you're going to continue comparing SWTOR's launch to WoW's launch, then BioWare/EA will continue to steal your money. When you buy a car, you expect it to have air conditioning. When you buy a house, you expect it to have a bathroom, not a promise to install an outhouse 4 months after you move in.

I've reached the conclusion that some people simply aren't intellectually capable of differentiating between subscription number and concurrent player numbers, and how that makes itself apparent on server status.

I remember when I first began studying differential calculus...I simply didn't 'get it'. Try as I might, something didn't click in my brain. Then one day, the proverbial light bulb came on, and I understood calculus. It clicked in my brain.
Perhaps someday these people will have a light bulb moment and understand the difference between subscription and concurrent numbers. The good news is that it's not as difficult to understand as Calculus. The bad news is that they need to want to understand, which they don't seem interested in.

The problem is actually people. People who play games these days are desperately seeking some sort of reward, some feeling of being special and they become extremely jealous when others get those rewards before them. It's a societal problem, and we've been slowly devolving over the past 20 years as our information and entertainment has become delivered to us faster and faster.

Wow, those are some bad examples. Depending on the options for your car it may or may not have air conditioning. Depending on the type of house you are buying, it may or may not have indoor plumbing (yes, one can still buy a house without indoor bathrooms in many parts of the world).

Agreed. But, the design of MMORPG actually encourages the schism between casual and HARDCORE (a.k.a. winning) gamers/people instead of creating an environment that fosters team work and group play and interaction the current MMO"RPG" promotes us to steal from each other snake chest, resources etc just to get ahead. As I said MMO"RPG" is bad.

Instead of a game that puts us all at odds we need a game that gently nudges us to be nice to each other and help out, but that me thinks goes against "real" human nature (not the PC human nature you kiss your mom with, but the real MMO"RPG" human nature)

Haha, there is no convincing someone like you then. You're saying between two products of equal value, you're willing to spend money on the one with less features. Congrats on having no standards whatsoever.