The end of the arguement. Is SWTOR in decline? Can it be saved?

It reached 1,000 posts so they restarted it? If you want to see the previous thread, it's linked in the Moderators post on page 1...

This outlook is painfully narrow in scope. Even the lifetime of niche MMOs extends far beyond a mere six months and endures substantially lower populations. To call something too late at this stage of the life cycle is the very definition of premature. And merely repeating the claim does nothing to substantiate it.

Having played "that other MMO" from beta until I quit last year, I would just like to mention that in it's first year, there were so many "I'm going back to EQ" and "Game is a failure! Why didn't they just make Diablo 3" threads in their forums that it would give these forums a run for their money. It was not perfect either. Servers declined consistently for the first year and a half, as well.

But look where it is now.

I do enjoy reading the "I'm quitting game is fail" gloom and doom threads, and feel free to quit. I'll see you back in 6-12 months. Just like in "that other MMO."

There is a problem: a perceived lack of players on many servers--whether that's a credible perception or not. Do we disagree on this premise? The forums are full of people complaining about this (real or not).

There is a tentative solution rolling out now, but said solution has yet to be implemented for the largest chunk of the game's population. Do we disagree on this premise as well? The majority of threads and posts concerning low populations are by players not eligible for the Asia-Pacific transfers.

For these players, the solution is late. Is this where we disagree?

Quite heartily. The notion of "late" must be seen in relation to the game's total life cycle, which is (regardless of any dip in population) going to extend far longer than I believe you want to admit. This is even more prescient since we know the technology for server transfers exists, which all but assures that solutions to percieved are pending.

As something of a tangential note, I find it noteworthy that you seem so adamant about this issue, coming from Adraas.

So the players' perception of "late" or "on-time" is not important? To the player who needed transfers yesterday, BioWare's solution is late. That's the late I'm referring to here.

I personally have no issues with server population, but I know that many people do. I'm trying to understand how people can disregard a hell of a lot of players who see this as a very significant obstacle to them enjoying the game.

And yet, it's coming sooner than any other MMO before, MMOs that had far worse after-launch dip. If it's late here, when it's sooner than any other MMO and still has more players per server than even WoW had, then there isn't an MMO in history that wasn't "late", by your definition.

So, that means, it's perfectly normal.

That doesn't make it any less late...

EDIT - It should be noted that we're talking about The Old Republic--not other games.

The problem isn't SW:TOR, because in reality SW:TOR is the best MMO"RPG" to date.

The problem is in the MMO"RPG" design.

WoW was a great move forward from EQ and opened the door of MMO"RPG" to a lot of new people, but the simple fact is a huge number of us like the MMO aspect and the RPG aspect, but we really don't like the way MMO and RPG currently mesh.

GW2 sounds like it is going to solve some of the things a lot of people do not like about MMO"RPG" I'll believe it when I see it.

I personally did not get to play EQ, I did play a little Ultima Online and I did at least a few months in every MMO"RPG" from City of Heros/Villians to WoW to GW (it counts damn it) and everything in between while maintaining my D2 addiction for going on 14 years; I've beaten literally hundreds of console games starting from NES all the way through to my over priced PS3. I've been playing video games for going on 30 years and on top of that I am computer programmer and have made a few video games.

That said I don't think MMO's can last in this current WoW/SWTOR/RIFT modal things are going to change. People don't actually want to pay to do dailies every day etc, but MMO"RPG" is seen by a lot of gamers as the top of the food chain in terms of content, challenge, and accomplishment. Why? because of the ridiculous amount of time sinks, money sinks, gating and other BS that prevent me from walking up PWNing the *********** game and walking away like I do most console/computer games.

I considered buying credits again today because I don't want to grind credits/gold/wtfe anymore 10 years of mindless grinding IS ENOUGH; unfortunatly I don't want to support hackers or get banned so I will just stop paying to work for SWTOR and be happy instead. So with my third level 50 done today with no sense of accomplishment (because it took no skill or effort to speak of) and no sense of having "won" anything I ask myself why am I going level the sniper from lvl 25 up to 50? To GET THAT OP CARROT er BUFF -> NO

MMO"RPG" is on the decline and should not be saved something better needs to replace this crap. GW2?

RIFT had server transfers REALLY REALLY soon after launch. Also, in 2012, after 10+ years of MMORPG etc it should have been available the day of launch. They knew it was needed; if they didn't they are even more stupid than I originally thought.