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Why isn't this game growing or at least breaking even?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why isn't this game growing or at least breaking even?

Niil's Avatar


Niil
04.20.2012 , 07:35 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by miranwe View Post
because you dont understand what this means
There's a reason western mmo's don't develop their games similar to korean grindfests. Western gamers don't enjoy that playstyle. So the reason the game is losing subs is because they designed the game in a way that their target audience prefers? That doesn't make any sense.

The second part makes sense, but only in relation to how many hours a week people play, or how long term they'll play for people who raid at the top end or pvp at the top end. People who casually play or don't run out of content (read, the vast majority of players, those who don't clear nightmare mode of the current tier, ignoring this one as nightmare isn't implemented yet, or who have full war hero gear which is no one right now).

SajmanPeetee's Avatar


SajmanPeetee
04.20.2012 , 07:38 PM | #22
The misconception here is that the game is fading, it's not.

At launch, people were taking vacations from work, calling in sicks, devoting 12+ hours a day to the game. Those people, for the most part, are still here but are being more rational with their time. They login in for a few hours every night, usually at peak, do a couple WZs maybe a FP and log off. Also, there's alot of weekend warriors that tend to not play excessively till the weekend.

The subscriptions numbers are actually up and continue to grow. You just see people spending their time more rationally.

Eddizel's Avatar


Eddizel
04.20.2012 , 07:38 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by miranwe View Post
because you dont understand what this means
Are we talking in circles? Those 2 things can't apply to MY server (all I am discussing here is my server).

#2 doesn't apply because we are the only ones done with the content, so there were no "powergamers" on my server that plowed through it all and quit again.

#1 Are you saying people quit because there was no grind for them to do? I don't buy this because there is no way people finished the pvp grind yet, or the new pve gear grind yet.

If people quit on MY server shortly after coming back for 1.2, it was not for those 2 reasons, it has to be something else. I am guessing they simply didn't like the content, maybe some of it was too hard, maybe the no rated wz's caused some to leave, but once again, it cannot be for the 2 reasons you gave.

JeramieCrowe's Avatar


JeramieCrowe
04.20.2012 , 07:44 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Eddizel View Post
Just want to see this game grow, I enjoy it and would like it to stick around awhile and see if it can fill its potential.
BioWare just responded yesterday with the fact that subs ARE growing. So, why does it seem like TOR is losing subs? I posted this in another thread, but I'll post it here:

Remember, seemingly "dead" servers are not due to loss of subs. On the contrary, subs are increasing. What's causing that is less people playing concurrently.

For example, you have 12 subs. At launch, people are excited, take days off, use vacation, decrease other entertaining activities, etc. to play as much as possible, more than they usually do in an MMO. Over a 24 hour period, you have 2 people logging in every 4 hours, and playing 12 hours at a time. At any given time during the day, you'll see 6 people playing.

Now, the launch excitement wears off, people start returning to their normal play durations, log in times, etc. After that typical MMO "dropoff", you now have 24 subs, but you have 2 people logging in every 4 hours, and playing for 4 hours. Thus, at any given time of the day, you'll see 4 people playing instead of 6. Subs have actually doubled. But because the concurrent playtime has dropped off, there is a perceived decrease in subs.

And, as is par for the course, BioWare has started a long-term, organized server transfer system. The reason why this works better than server merges for this issue is because, again, there is no loss of subs. Thus, merging servers will only cause insane Full queue times during events and expansions. Server transfers will not, since it tends to have a more "leveling" effect.

Clear as mud?
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Niil's Avatar


Niil
04.20.2012 , 07:47 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Eddizel View Post
Yes, I am just speculating, based on what I see, and for the record, I am only talking baout my server, which is not a ghost town, in fact we lean towards the healthy side considering some of the horror stories out there of ghost town servers.

I don't care what gear drops from the new FP, I just like it cause I thought it was pretty darn good content for a 4 man. I knew I wouldn't want any gear in there, but it is nice for the weekly quest for it.

You need to step up to the new campaign gear if you want to move it to orange gear and keep your set bonuses. So I guess you will have to start killing hard modes or wait till they nerf them, which I am guessing they will eventually.

When you start stacking campaign gear and blackhole gear, your choices on stats really open up.

With the improvements they have done on difficulty, I don't think 3 hour nightmare clears of the new content is coming anytime soon, but we will have to wait and see what the nightmare modes are even like.
I get what you're saying about the new flash point. I like the story. It was well done. But story is only good once or twice for me. After that, there has to be some motivation for me to go. As an easy example off the cuff. If legacy had 2 aspects to it. A total level, and a spendable portion that accrued as it does now. Instead of spending millions upon millions of credits for legacy content, if I could say, spend legacy "currency" to unlock new features, I'd have a motivation to run anything and everything out there. Anything I could think of doing would contribute to unlocking new fun stuff. Then even if I wasn't getting new loot, I'd have a reason to go do 99% of the content in the game. Instead, I look at it and say, "hey that's cool but why bother?"

You missed my point about gear. I understand exactly how it works. I just think the implementation was idiotic or incomplete. There are a ton of other awesome looking gear in the game, most of it at lower levels. I'd love to farm up those schematics and customize each and every one of my companions out on my main. I also feel the limitation on the Rakata/Columi/Tionese set bonuses is silly. It should be attached to the armor slot just as the new content is. Instead, I can customize my looks, but I have to wait until I get the campaign set. Then, if I happen to like the campaign set, I have to wait until everyone has their gear before I can start gambling to learn the schematics for it. The amount of content this would provide me, and many others, would keep us entertained for a long time. Instead I get stuck with the looks I have until much much later.

The choice on stats, right now, is relatively open. It just costs a large amount of credits to change up. Everyone has an optimal setup for stats. No matter how you put it, stacking alacrity for me is just stupid. Crit is only valuable up until heavy diminishing returns kick in. Same thing with surge. That leaves stacking aim and power, which is what I already try to do. That's not "options". That's just optimal versus default.

I'm with you in that I hope nightmare mode doesn't take a trivial amount of time for people to clear.

Niil's Avatar


Niil
04.20.2012 , 07:51 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by JeramieCrowe View Post
BioWare just responded yesterday with the fact that subs ARE growing. So, why does it seem like TOR is losing subs? I posted this in another thread, but I'll post it here:

<snip>

Clear as mud?
As an addition to this, I presume folks are rolling alts too with the new legacy system. This means less people hanging out on fleet and more peopel questing in the low level locations. There's 14 people right now, on my server, in the starter zone for BH's and IA's, Surprisingly most of them are BH's. I'd be curious to see what the starter zone looks like for sith warriors, being that they are very fotm right now. Alas, I'm too lazy to fly over and all my character slots are filled up.

Eddizel's Avatar


Eddizel
04.20.2012 , 07:52 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by JeramieCrowe View Post
BioWare just responded yesterday with the fact that subs ARE growing. So, why does it seem like TOR is losing subs? I posted this in another thread, but I'll post it here:

Remember, seemingly "dead" servers are not due to loss of subs. On the contrary, subs are increasing. What's causing that is less people playing concurrently.

For example, you have 12 subs. At launch, people are excited, take days off, use vacation, decrease other entertaining activities, etc. to play as much as possible, more than they usually do in an MMO. Over a 24 hour period, you have 2 people logging in every 4 hours, and playing 12 hours at a time. At any given time during the day, you'll see 6 people playing.

Now, the launch excitement wears off, people start returning to their normal play durations, log in times, etc. After that typical MMO "dropoff", you now have 24 subs, but you have 2 people logging in every 4 hours, and playing for 4 hours. Thus, at any given time of the day, you'll see 4 people playing instead of 6. Subs have actually doubled. But because the concurrent playtime has dropped off, there is a perceived decrease in subs.

And, as is par for the course, BioWare has started a long-term, organized server transfer system. The reason why this works better than server merges for this issue is because, again, there is no loss of subs. Thus, merging servers will only cause insane Full queue times during events and expansions. Server transfers will not, since it tends to have a more "leveling" effect.

Clear as mud?
That is all fine and good, I just expected a spike in activity for the patch. It seems to have died down already. Often my guild is the only one in denova, it has been out a week.............

The fleet pop is back to pre-patch levels, a little too soon if you ask me.

Bloodstealer's Avatar


Bloodstealer
04.20.2012 , 07:54 PM | #28
[QUOTE=Eddizel;4073132] SNIP SNIP.... and great engine improvements .. where are these improvements you speak of... I and many I speak to , run with seem to think otherwise, as do many others on here.... not only do we have FPS issues still and from what I see they have gotten worse... but now there are sound issues all over the place, just go run a basic WZ and hear the broken, often slurred commentary or end convo in voidstar or Alderan wz.... ability delays and animations glitching all over the place... SO where are these improvements you speak... of course its like only <5% of the playerbase having issues and that cos they have poor cruddy PC's... err errrr no! i disagree

....but it really feels like people came back for one or two days with the patch and then left again, I don't get it......... - That is exactly what happens in any other MMO when there is a major content release... and its exactly what will happen when the free 7-day, free 30 day promotions hit next week... after the free period the majority of the returners will likely hit hyperspeed and get the hell outta SWTOR leaving another flurry of expletives in their wake ... then they assume their position hovering around forums in anticiation for the next free hand out,

Just want to see this game grow - DONT WE ALL... but with ghost servers, extremely basic to the point of non-existant grping tools, poor performance, especially more so since 1.2 what with the sound bugging all over the place, poor Open World PVP .. I have never seen anyone on planets like Tattoine using the Outlaws Den.. except occasionally to get from one place to another or loot a chest or 2 enroute..... and of course there's Illum... QUOTE]

Nuff said really
The Chaotic Misfits Guild.
Death or Glory - It's all just a game to me!

Referral Link - http://www.swtor.com/r/Mf4BzX

Eddizel's Avatar


Eddizel
04.20.2012 , 07:58 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Niil View Post
I get what you're saying about the new flash point. I like the story. It was well done. But story is only good once or twice for me. After that, there has to be some motivation for me to go. As an easy example off the cuff. If legacy had 2 aspects to it. A total level, and a spendable portion that accrued as it does now. Instead of spending millions upon millions of credits for legacy content, if I could say, spend legacy "currency" to unlock new features, I'd have a motivation to run anything and everything out there. Anything I could think of doing would contribute to unlocking new fun stuff. Then even if I wasn't getting new loot, I'd have a reason to go do 99% of the content in the game. Instead, I look at it and say, "hey that's cool but why bother?"

You missed my point about gear. I understand exactly how it works. I just think the implementation was idiotic or incomplete. There are a ton of other awesome looking gear in the game, most of it at lower levels. I'd love to farm up those schematics and customize each and every one of my companions out on my main. I also feel the limitation on the Rakata/Columi/Tionese set bonuses is silly. It should be attached to the armor slot just as the new content is. Instead, I can customize my looks, but I have to wait until I get the campaign set. Then, if I happen to like the campaign set, I have to wait until everyone has their gear before I can start gambling to learn the schematics for it. The amount of content this would provide me, and many others, would keep us entertained for a long time. Instead I get stuck with the looks I have until much much later.

The choice on stats, right now, is relatively open. It just costs a large amount of credits to change up. Everyone has an optimal setup for stats. No matter how you put it, stacking alacrity for me is just stupid. Crit is only valuable up until heavy diminishing returns kick in. Same thing with surge. That leaves stacking aim and power, which is what I already try to do. That's not "options". That's just optimal versus default.

I'm with you in that I hope nightmare mode doesn't take a trivial amount of time for people to clear.
Oh I don't care about story, I just liked the fights in there. I will run it once a week for comms, thats it. I spacebar everything. I don't get the whole story thing, I don't play an MMO for story, I play it to raid and pvp and socialize with my guild. If I want a story I will watch a movie or read a book, but to each their own.

As for gear, I kind of see your perspective now, you care about looks and customization, which is cool. I don't. I just wear whatever has the best stats, and whatever oranges have augment slots, looks really mean nothing to me. I don't care about my companions either, I vendor stuff before I give it to them. I can see how you felt shafted now with the gear options and changes, maybe they will fix that for you hopefully.

I like to min/max, yes, so I am just happy I don't have to wear bad stats now or downgrade my enhancements to get rid of accuracy or alacrity that I don't want.

Niil's Avatar


Niil
04.20.2012 , 08:08 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Eddizel View Post
Oh I don't care about story, I just liked the fights in there. I will run it once a week for comms, thats it. I spacebar everything. I don't get the whole story thing, I don't play an MMO for story, I play it to raid and pvp and socialize with my guild. If I want a story I will watch a movie or read a book, but to each their own.

As for gear, I kind of see your perspective now, you care about looks and customization, which is cool. I don't. I just wear whatever has the best stats, and whatever oranges have augment slots, looks really mean nothing to me. I don't care about my companions either, I vendor stuff before I give it to them. I can see how you felt shafted now with the gear options and changes, maybe they will fix that for you hopefully.

I like to min/max, yes, so I am just happy I don't have to wear bad stats now or downgrade my enhancements to get rid of accuracy or alacrity that I don't want.
However, you're not asking why you're not playing, you're asking why other people aren't playing. What you care about isn't relevant (as you are still here, you're talking about the people who don't seem to be). I raid, I pvp (though mostly sub-50 as I find that more entertaining). The extra stuff is just fluff for me. But for folks who aren't playing, that stuff is probably more important than the quality of the new raid or the new flashpoint. Really, people who aren't raiding aren't going to have much success with the new flashpoint anyways. The tuning is too high for people who *should* be doing it for upgrades. The same can be said of story mode EC. The people who *should* be doing it aren't because they get their asses handed to them when they try, because it's clearly designed to be done by people in Rakata.

I see what you mean about mods. However, the difference between 56 and 58 (the previous tier) is miniscule, and you were getting rid of unnecessary stats and gaining ones that were useful already. The only real difference is that the mod itemlevels are now comparable.