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Change to rewards is a step in the right direction, but TTK is still way too short.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Change to rewards is a step in the right direction, but TTK is still way too short.
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GamewizX's Avatar


GamewizX
04.20.2012 , 09:22 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post
Hey guys,

A few additional notes on this topic, fresh from a meeting with Gabe and the PvP team.

(a) Expertise difference between combatants is the single most important factor in time to kill in PvP.

Having zero or little expertise on your gear (e.g. pure PvE gear) is the primary reason for people to experience a sped-up time to death in Game Update 1.2. While it was quite viable pre-1.2 to bring your Rakata or Columi gear without any added expertise into PvP, the increased focus on expertise in the PvP track of gear has made it much harder to compete with that equipment compared to even the entry level Recruit set.

Consequently, the single most effective step you can take to decrease time to death (i.e. increase time to kill of your opponent) is to gear for increased expertise. Coming from PvE, obtaining at least some pieces of Recruit gear is definitely recommended.

We're aware that this fact is not adequately communicated in the game and that the cost of recruit gear is perceived as too prohibitive by some of you. We're in the process of working on a solution for these issues at the moment.

TL;DR: Expertise is a lot more valuable than any other stat in PvP. Recruit gear easily beats Columi for PvP.

(b) In response to your feedback, we've re-tested all classes to ensure they are falling within our desired DPS targets and found one issue with Demo Round / Heatseeker Missile which was getting increased DPS, not just from other people's stacks but also from an unwanted interaction with other skills. That issue was corrected in the 1.2.0c patch this week.

(c) There has been some level of inflation in the overall DPS budget of the game as result of Legacy benefits and other changes. Over time, these add up and as it stands, we have established that the global burst potential across the game is slightly higher than we are targeting. We will likely take some minor to moderate action about this in the near future by adjustments to the magnitude and duration of offensive relics (longer duration, reduced magnitude, identical power amortized over time).

(d) When faced with groups of enemies, stacking debuffs can result a real TTK issue. We are in process of revamping the debuff system in the game to reduce the impact of multi player debuff stacking on TTK.
Personally I think the problem is expertise in general. A PvP stat has never been a good idea in my opinion. All it does is make gear far more important than skill, which is something I am never a fan of.
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ComeAndSee's Avatar


ComeAndSee
04.20.2012 , 09:31 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post
Hey guys,

A few additional notes on this topic, fresh from a meeting with Gabe and the PvP team.

(a) Expertise difference between combatants is the single most important factor in time to kill in PvP.

Having zero or little expertise on your gear (e.g. pure PvE gear) is the primary reason for people to experience a sped-up time to death in Game Update 1.2. While it was quite viable pre-1.2 to bring your Rakata or Columi gear without any added expertise into PvP, the increased focus on expertise in the PvP track of gear has made it much harder to compete with that equipment compared to even the entry level Recruit set.

Consequently, the single most effective step you can take to decrease time to death (i.e. increase time to kill of your opponent) is to gear for increased expertise. Coming from PvE, obtaining at least some pieces of Recruit gear is definitely recommended.

We're aware that this fact is not adequately communicated in the game and that the cost of recruit gear is perceived as too prohibitive by some of you. We're in the process of working on a solution for these issues at the moment.
Interesting -- what is your take on defensive stats in PvP? I look at defensive stats as being almost equal as expertise defensive wise.

Quote:
(c) There has been some level of inflation in the overall DPS budget of the game as result of Legacy benefits and other changes. Over time, these add up and as it stands, we have established that the global burst potential across the game is slightly higher than we are targeting. We will likely take some minor to moderate action about this in the near future by adjustments to the magnitude and duration of offensive relics (longer duration, reduced magnitude, identical power amortized over time).
I agree. I play as a Shield Vanguard and my burst potential is too high for a Tanking class. I *can* and frequently am able to burst people for 6-8k in a matter of GCD's basically every 15 seconds.

Quote:
(d) When faced with groups of enemies, stacking debuffs can result a real TTK issue. We are in process of revamping the debuff system in the game to reduce the impact of multi player debuff stacking on TTK.
Are you talking about armor reduction debuffs?
| Shayera Zhukov | Marshal of The Republic Army | Shield Vanguard | Jedi Covenant |

"It's not cheating unless you get caught."

Scramilton's Avatar


Scramilton
04.20.2012 , 09:32 AM | #43
Are you guys really going to nerf damage across the board when this is only a pvp issue? again? It's clearly an issue between the ratio of damage expertise bonus and mitigation expertise bonus.

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ComeAndSee
04.20.2012 , 09:37 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Scramilton View Post
Are you guys really going to nerf damage across the board when this is only a pvp issue? again? It's clearly an issue between the ratio of damage expertise bonus and mitigation expertise bonus.
You're talking a 4-5% difference between the two.
| Shayera Zhukov | Marshal of The Republic Army | Shield Vanguard | Jedi Covenant |

"It's not cheating unless you get caught."

Scramilton's Avatar


Scramilton
04.20.2012 , 09:41 AM | #45
That's a significant difference. Pre-1.2 they were equal.

Assaultrooper's Avatar


Assaultrooper
04.20.2012 , 09:44 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Scramilton View Post
That's a significant difference. Pre-1.2 they were equal.
The arent talking of nerfing damage but making it less "bursty"... geezzz (Nerf to say crit % of a relic + buff to duration of the effect = Same dps in PvE)
Quote: Originally Posted by CrunkShizzle View Post
Just wonderin how AP is lookin pvp wise
Could be worse

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ComeAndSee
04.20.2012 , 09:46 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Scramilton View Post
That's a significant difference. Pre-1.2 they were equal.
1. They nerfed healers.
2. They made the GCD way more responsive.
3. Marauders
4. Nerfed Champion gear. The expertise difference is quite large now.
5. Can't get away with PvE gear.
| Shayera Zhukov | Marshal of The Republic Army | Shield Vanguard | Jedi Covenant |

"It's not cheating unless you get caught."

Sookster's Avatar


Sookster
04.20.2012 , 09:53 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post
Hey guys,

A few additional notes on this topic, fresh from a meeting with Gabe and the PvP team.

(a) Expertise difference between combatants is the single most important factor in time to kill in PvP.

Having zero or little expertise on your gear (e.g. pure PvE gear) is the primary reason for people to experience a sped-up time to death in Game Update 1.2. While it was quite viable pre-1.2 to bring your Rakata or Columi gear without any added expertise into PvP, the increased focus on expertise in the PvP track of gear has made it much harder to compete with that equipment compared to even the entry level Recruit set.

Consequently, the single most effective step you can take to decrease time to death (i.e. increase time to kill of your opponent) is to gear for increased expertise. Coming from PvE, obtaining at least some pieces of Recruit gear is definitely recommended.

We're aware that this fact is not adequately communicated in the game and that the cost of recruit gear is perceived as too prohibitive by some of you. We're in the process of working on a solution for these issues at the moment.

TL;DR: Expertise is a lot more valuable than any other stat in PvP. Recruit gear easily beats Columi for PvP.

(b) In response to your feedback, we've re-tested all classes to ensure they are falling within our desired DPS targets and found one issue with Demo Round / Heatseeker Missile which was getting increased DPS, not just from other people's stacks but also from an unwanted interaction with other skills. That issue was corrected in the 1.2.0c patch this week.

(c) There has been some level of inflation in the overall DPS budget of the game as result of Legacy benefits and other changes. Over time, these add up and as it stands, we have established that the global burst potential across the game is slightly higher than we are targeting. We will likely take some minor to moderate action about this in the near future by adjustments to the magnitude and duration of offensive relics (longer duration, reduced magnitude, identical power amortized over time).

(d) When faced with groups of enemies, stacking debuffs can result a real TTK issue. We are in process of revamping the debuff system in the game to reduce the impact of multi player debuff stacking on TTK.
You're the only one in this thread that brought up Columi gear, why? What does Columi gear have to do with pvp? Recruit is garbage aside the increased expertise over Centurion and Champion gear, however Cent and Champ still has much better stats. Why should I buy a suit of Recruit and only have 13K health with 900 expertise which doesn't help much when the suit's stats are low. Even if recruit's stats are low, endurance should've been a little higher.

PS- oh and thanks for swapping out +power stats for +defense stats on Tionese, Centurion and Champion gear, they're so useless to me as a medicine operative...
Now that GoergZoeller is gone, buff operative.
SWTOR going F2P, now playing SWGemu.

ComeAndSee's Avatar


ComeAndSee
04.20.2012 , 09:57 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Sookster View Post
You're the only one in this thread that brought up Columi gear, why? What does Columi gear have to do with pvp? Recruit is garbage aside the increased expertise over Centurion and Champion gear, however Cent and Champ still has much better stats. Why should I buy a suit of Recruit and only have 13K health with 900 expertise which doesn't help much when the suit's stats are low. Even if recruit's stats are low, endurance should've been a little higher.
So you would rather hit lvl 50 and have no pvp gear? Would you rather walk into a WZ with 12k HP and 0 expertise? The recruit gear is to get you on your feet. The majority of the players out there aren't full decked out players with Battlemaster/War Hero gear.
| Shayera Zhukov | Marshal of The Republic Army | Shield Vanguard | Jedi Covenant |

"It's not cheating unless you get caught."

Sookster's Avatar


Sookster
04.20.2012 , 09:58 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by ComeAndSee View Post
So you would rather hit lvl 50 and have no pvp gear? Would you rather walk into a WZ with 12k HP and 0 expertise? The recruit gear is to get you on your feet. The majority of the players out there aren't full decked out players with Battlemaster/War Hero gear.
^ read the last sentence in that quote.
Now that GoergZoeller is gone, buff operative.
SWTOR going F2P, now playing SWGemu.
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