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Enrage timers just too tight on SM EC


Onibubu's Avatar


Onibubu
04.18.2012 , 03:26 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Leovinus View Post
I think for some of the fights, they just need to relax one or two more mechanics, lower the damage output of the aoes, lower the range, decrease the mechanics that go along with the tank switch, something (this is for Zorn and Toth, of course).
So you technicaly want all bosses to be tank and spank like in Tier 1?
*sarkasm on* Thank you, that is the right way! *sarkasm off*

Edit:
As I said before, on Storymode you can ALREADY ignore mechanics!
For example:
AOE Stomp on Boss 1 -> Just heal through
Tank Swap on Boss 2 -> Just heal through
Knights of the Shadows, Vanjervalis Chain - Republik
T1:10/10 NM T2:4/4 HM
http://knightsoftheshadows.de/

schwiz's Avatar


schwiz
04.18.2012 , 06:41 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Onibubu View Post
So you technicaly want all bosses to be tank and spank like in Tier 1?
*sarkasm on* Thank you, that is the right way! *sarkasm off*

Edit:
As I said before, on Storymode you can ALREADY ignore mechanics!
For example:
AOE Stomp on Boss 1 -> Just heal through
Tank Swap on Boss 2 -> Just heal through
Yep, my guild cleared the first time, we had about half the op in full rakata and the other half on their alts. Its not hard at all we never ran into enrage timer issues.

Leovinus's Avatar


Leovinus
04.19.2012 , 08:03 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Onibubu View Post
So you technicaly want all bosses to be tank and spank like in Tier 1?
*sarkasm on* Thank you, that is the right way! *sarkasm off*

Edit:
As I said before, on Storymode you can ALREADY ignore mechanics!
For example:
AOE Stomp on Boss 1 -> Just heal through
Tank Swap on Boss 2 -> Just heal through
[sarcasm] Thank you for so cleverly summarizing my position[/sarcasm]

On story mode YOU can ignore mechanics. The target audience CANNOT. For the target audience, the raid still requires a high level of coordination, which is not possible in a true pickup raid. Story mode should be about 2 things. 1. introducing players to the general mechanics of the fights. And 2. gearing NEW players to raiding to the level that a progression guild will need. HM should be about getting refined, with significantly less wiggle room for error, and NMM should allow almost none.

It's been said over and over, but this is ALL about story mode. Make HM and NMM (when it comes) require real coordination and real gear. I couldn't care less, that's my level. But don't force coordination checks on a target group that won't have it by its very nature.

Codek's Avatar


Codek
04.19.2012 , 08:36 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Leovinus View Post
[sarcasm] Thank you for so cleverly summarizing my position[/sarcasm]

On story mode YOU can ignore mechanics. The target audience CANNOT. For the target audience, the raid still requires a high level of coordination, which is not possible in a true pickup raid. Story mode should be about 2 things. 1. introducing players to the general mechanics of the fights. And 2. gearing NEW players to raiding to the level that a progression guild will need. HM should be about getting refined, with significantly less wiggle room for error, and NMM should allow almost none.

It's been said over and over, but this is ALL about story mode. Make HM and NMM (when it comes) require real coordination and real gear. I couldn't care less, that's my level. But don't force coordination checks on a target group that won't have it by its very nature.
Are you suggesting that EC story mode should be nerfed so the PUG's can do it without concern? What is even the point to this idea?

It's not about gear, any guild that is competent knows how to get new members gear. If it's to see the "story" then I suggest to go to youtube since the operation would no longer be a game anymore anyways. If it's to learn the mechanics then I think the fight is currently doing a pretty damn good job at teaching people what to look out for.

PuG's can have EV, even KP if they work well together. EC is simply that step up that says "hey, work a bit more as a team and less as individual players!".
~Codek

Leovinus's Avatar


Leovinus
04.19.2012 , 09:47 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Codek View Post
Are you suggesting that EC story mode should be nerfed so the PUG's can do it without concern? What is even the point to this idea?

It's not about gear, any guild that is competent knows how to get new members gear. If it's to see the "story" then I suggest to go to youtube since the operation would no longer be a game anymore anyways. If it's to learn the mechanics then I think the fight is currently doing a pretty damn good job at teaching people what to look out for.

PuG's can have EV, even KP if they work well together. EC is simply that step up that says "hey, work a bit more as a team and less as individual players!".
I think we merely disagree on what story mode ought to be. That's fine, I guess, but I don't think that those arguing that it's good the way it is are really thinking about what's good for the long term raiding population of the game. Pick up raids being successful in the most current story mode (consisting of people that geared themselves some in flashpoints and then a run or two of the earlier story mode raids, IMO) is critical to long term influx of new blood to progression raid guilds.

That's all I'm trying to say, and I feel like EC story mode is a little bit off that mark right now. I'm done.

Codek's Avatar


Codek
04.19.2012 , 10:13 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Leovinus View Post
I think we merely disagree on what story mode ought to be. That's fine, I guess, but I don't think that those arguing that it's good the way it is are really thinking about what's good for the long term raiding population of the game. Pick up raids being successful in the most current story mode (consisting of people that geared themselves some in flashpoints and then a run or two of the earlier story mode raids, IMO) is critical to long term influx of new blood to progression raid guilds.

That's all I'm trying to say, and I feel like EC story mode is a little bit off that mark right now. I'm done.
The best thing for the long term raiding population is to strongly encourage raiders to form guilds and create bond with other players. I can't imagine someone playing this game for years simply by PuGing raid content. what better way is there to draw people into joining guilds then to create a challenge that PuG's just can't cross?

We have and always will have successful PuG groups doing raids but there is no reason that this is necessary for all content. That would only encourage people to try the new content and just end it there.
~Codek

Baconmonster's Avatar


Baconmonster
04.19.2012 , 10:38 AM | #37
What if they removed the enrage timers (and just the enrage timers) altogether from SM EC? That should make it easy enough for causal players who are having trouble with it to down bosses without nerfing the encounters directly. I mean give it a couple weeks so the content isn't cleared so quickly they stop raiding, but would that be fair if just done with SM and not any other level?

defendurname's Avatar


defendurname
04.19.2012 , 10:41 AM | #38
You must have some pretty bad dps then. When we did Denova in the first week our dps was mostly columi, with a few rakata pieces here and there, and we never hit an enrage timer, with the exception of the 3rd puzzle boss turrets when we were still learning the encounter and didnt know the turrets could enrage


Also, we did have problems with the bomb adds on the last boss but we found a way to beat them once we switched to burst dps rotations.

Codek's Avatar


Codek
04.19.2012 , 10:44 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Baconmonster View Post
What if they removed the enrage timers (and just the enrage timers) altogether from SM EC? That should make it easy enough for causal players who are having trouble with it to down bosses without nerfing the encounters directly. I mean give it a couple weeks so the content isn't cleared so quickly they stop raiding, but would that be fair if just done with SM and not any other level?
That would bring up the other issue that arises when enrage timers are not present. All the DPS classes will no longer be held to the same standards that tanks and healers are placed at. Thus all DPS can just walk in with greens and blame healers for not keeping them up long enough to kill the boss. Or worse, they walk in with nothing but greens and actually succeed with spamming basic attack or some other extreme example of uselessness.
~Codek

KarethRiker's Avatar


KarethRiker
04.19.2012 , 11:36 AM | #40
Yeah they shouldn't nerf it and this is from someone who has not cleared it. We got close, but because our tanks had problems with the mechanics it's our bad. It seems very doable with good DPS & heals and proper mechanics. Excited to try again until we get it right.