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PvP Balance Discussion: PvP in 1.2 and how to improve it.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
PvP Balance Discussion: PvP in 1.2 and how to improve it.

NDiggy's Avatar


NDiggy
04.16.2012 , 11:22 PM | #41
Your Commando suggestions would just make dps Commandos worse than they already are. They already have terrible survivability, no mobility, and run out of ammo far too quickly in pvp.

The easy fix for Sages in Huttball is to not allow the ball carrier to be pulled or to leap to another target or to sprint. The ball should only be able to be moved by walking the ramps and smart positioning for throws. This would balance things alot and eliminate those nightmare gimmick teams with 3 sages, 2 tankasins and vanguards and guardians.
A countryman between two lawyers is like a fish between two cats. -
Benjamin Franklin

Sugarray's Avatar


Sugarray
04.16.2012 , 11:26 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by TerryChastain View Post
As it is now, all imperials are rolling tank/dps hybrid. When you get 6-8 of them in a warzone, there is no countering it. They have all the defensive cool-downs in the world and they are doing more DPS than DPS classes. I play a sage, and there is no getting away from a jugg, mara, or an assassin. Even if I have all cool downs available, they can keep right with me as I try to kite. If I kite too much, I can't DPS them down. If I don't kite, their DPS will always be higher than my DPS. Tank/DPS hybrid is way OP in all builds. It is not that they are using high defense gear even. They are using DPS gear and get the benefits of all the defensive cool downs. PvP is highly broken on my server. Low population just means you are going to get the same 8 people over and over, and those 8 people are all playing the OP builds.
Most of the things you mention is misguided anger.
1) Those hybris you mention do not do more DPS than a Pure dps, not by a long shot, stating anything els is simply a lie.

2) you make its sound like they have a huge selection of defensive CD's this is not the case either.

3) your post seems to suggest 1v1 scenarios, the game does not balance around that and yes tanks are strong in these situation.

Sephyan's Avatar


Sephyan
04.16.2012 , 11:28 PM | #43
I understand that the 50 bracket is the heart and soul of PvP, but consider the 1-49 bracket.

Much of the changes you describe as being horrendous are actually quite different there. Healers for instance do quite well.

I do agree about the TTK of things though, even in the lower bracket things are quite fast. There is a nice rhythm to it, but I feel like they pushed things about twice as far as they should have for a change like that. I can only imagine what 900+ expertise looks like...

Again, I understand there's a difference in brackets, but I think having a perspective of both will give a clearer insight as to what the real issues are.

Class changes in the masses seem to be one of them. While I do enjoy some of the changes, I have to admit that reverting them will likely be the best solution for them, lest they build atop a broken foundation.

In addition, damage output was drastically increased with no consideration to CC. Right now you can easily get globaled. There are just some grossly overlooked items with this patch that really need to be addressed.

I like what the Op mentions, but I agree that a revert is the best course of action. BW needs to give a much higher consideration to proper testing and feedback before launching something like this. It wouldn't be so bad if they were more active in speaking with the PvP community.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=299042&page=3 -- For an epic story... (Will tide you over til the game's release, for sure!)

Comrade_Leader's Avatar


Comrade_Leader
04.16.2012 , 11:37 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by wrathofturks View Post
Commando:
The ammo nerf on the commando was needed.
- Reduce the duration of reactive shield
- Increase the healing done and number of allies healed of kolto bomb.

I don'T agree with ammo nerf on the commando. Don'T make me laugh here now. Ammo nerf is realy bad for medic ;and assault specialist !!! these 2 spectrum spending too much ammo... You saying here: I have commando class too ;but you don'T play with it generally at warzones I think. I am lvl 75 commando and I don't like this ammo nerf to us. At assault specialist , our main skill "incendiary round" that needs 3 ammo; for medic, "medical drope" needs 3 ammo. Other rest of all skills want at least 2 ammo. What is the total ammo we have? You should know it too: 12 ammo !!!! Don'T say us here ,I have commando class too. You don'T know anything about this class. Because commando is not your main!!! what is your main jedi shadow ( probably tank mode ), your class is OP ( every usefull at many warzones right now ). Try to reach lvl 82 pvp rank with your commando if you are not afraid ;and if you can hold your nervous while playing commando( every class attacks you first, you cannot escape them all at these warzones, you are easy piece of cake for them, you are generally useless when thy turned their face to you always ;and it happens generally more too with 1.2 patch...
True. We Commandos know this.

We will persuade Bioware yet!

SajPl's Avatar


SajPl
04.17.2012 , 11:37 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Comrade_Leader View Post
True. We Commandos know this.

We will persuade Bioware yet!
Most what the autor is suggesting is sensible, but yes Reactive Shield needs to be as it is. We troopers (BM Commando/Conqueror Vanguard here) have absolutely no way to get you of a fight we dont want to be in and Reactive Shield is to be honest one of the weakest defensive cooldowns, comparing to rebuke that has the same damage reduction but lasts up to 30 seconds or Resilience that makes all my attacks deflected or resisted, not to meantion force camo or force cloak.

JesseShando's Avatar


JesseShando
04.17.2012 , 11:43 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by SajPl View Post
Most what the autor is suggesting is sensible, but yes Reactive Shield needs to be as it is. We troopers (BM Commando/Conqueror Vanguard here) have absolutely no way to get you of a fight we dont want to be in and Reactive Shield is to be honest one of the weakest defensive cooldowns, comparing to rebuke that has the same damage reduction but lasts up to 30 seconds or Resilience that makes all my attacks deflected or resisted, not to meantion force camo or force cloak.
Keep in mind that I also suggest to revert the expertise changes back to pre 1.2. This would result in healers being much stronger. Before 1.2 Commando's/Mercs were pretty much indestructable.

Then again, im not an expert on the commando healer class. If more people could point out that im indeed very wrong here, I will make changes in the post! Also other suggestions for the commando are apreciated!

SajPl's Avatar


SajPl
04.17.2012 , 11:49 AM | #47
Commando/Merk healers were fine pre nerf. While a competent dps would force him to heal only himself not the teammates, 2 dps would tear a healer commando very fast. Guard is another factor but thats bringing a tank to the equasion so again its a 2 on 2 but it all comes down to skill.

My suggestions are as following :
-keep the ammo nerf for commandos so they actually have to manage their rescource because pre 1.2 they would never run out properly played
-make healing and damage reduction as it was pre 1.2 because its simply unfair for healers and tanks of all classes.

JesseShando's Avatar


JesseShando
04.17.2012 , 11:53 AM | #48
I have removed the suggestion to remove the swelling winds talent and instead suggested to lower the damage of sweep/smash on both Sentinel and Guardian.

Sreepje's Avatar


Sreepje
04.17.2012 , 12:28 PM | #49
good one but don't change the gunslinger

Slavequo's Avatar


Slavequo
04.17.2012 , 01:30 PM | #50
Combat medic:

Interrupt immunity is fine as it is, in my opinion. Can be countered by good cc and, if the target has full resolve, it means you already CCed it enough to stop his healing and bring his health down.
Ammo nerf is well tought, even tough my experience as commando healer are limited to sub50 braket, there was almost no point in having ammo at all.
Trash all the above since those are TUNING changes, if the expertise scaling remains as it is, there is no point in tweaking and balancing, reactive shield or not, ammo or not, they go down way too fast right now.

Guardian:

I play a level 50 of those "things", so I have half a clue.
The changes to leaps suggested by the OP are not too balanced. double/triple leap is a way we have to outrange the dps when we are dying; removing that is like taking away a defensive cooldown; pretty much like taking away force speed from consulars (is that even the right name?).
I have the feeling that this suggestion comes from how unbalanced it can be in huttball, but changing class mechanics based only on 1 of the 4 warzones is not the way to go. Instead I'd like to quote a good suggestion I read through these pages: don't let ball carriers leap/get pulled/sprint.
Passing and intercepting a passage will have much more weight and change huttball gameplay for the best.

Regarding force sweep: its damage was already reduced by 10% and cooldown increased by 3 sec afaik; and I have the feeling this was mostly to avoid buffing sentinels' focus tree too much .
A focus guardian gameplay was basically oriented toward building singualrity and exploit it on sweeps. Despite the insane damage these aoe had, I think that pre 1.2 that spec was balanced, had its ups and downs.

Master strike had a major buff to its damage and right now, as vigilance, it is too easy to land a full MS after a leap. I am not sure about what to do here, I feel guilty claiming that it is fine now. I kinda agree to make it interruptable again but that would be more to counter sentinels rather than nerfing vigilance for guardians.

To be honest I need more matches played with the current game version to evaluate downs and ups of each class, but I am damn sure about one thing: healers didn't need a nerf as this one and expertise we perfect the way it was.

One more thing the OP stated was to learn how to filter the feedbacks, well here is my rant:
If these changes came after reading feedbacks, they were from amateur pvpers. I don't mean to offend anyone, everyone is free to play how much and how long he wants, and I don't claim to be a pro player myself, but simply because Average Joe fails to coordinate with a team mate to take down a healer, it does not necessarily mean that healers can't be killed.