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Nerf Denova?


Iandayen's Avatar


Iandayen
04.15.2012 , 06:54 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by krinaman View Post
It either needs nerfed or raiding for "casuals" is over in this game.

Not everyone considers wiping all night trying to learn the dance steps as fun. Many will come into this place wipe a half a dozen times and just quit raiding.

Then when it's down to 5% of the population raiding it won't make sense to devote a bunch of devs to that content.
The fight is not hard at all.

You can't just go in and pewpew, kill, loot.

You need to learn the mechanics and how to deal with them properly.

If you can't do that it's not because you are casual, it's because you either don't care enough to try and be good or you can't be good.

The mechanics aren't hard, there is no "dance" as you put it.

The fight has been severely nerfed in multiple ways on the PTS since it was first released and I killed it in every form.

There is about 1/3 the incoming damage it had when it was originally on the pts, it has a minute longer enrage timer, it is way more relaxed.

Just because you couldn't beat it by trying to brute force your way through it doesn't mean it can't be beaten.
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Glorionn's Avatar


Glorionn
04.15.2012 , 07:08 PM | #12
Jeez guys, Tier 2 content is tier 2. You cant just waltz into it and one shot everything (even though, we, an average guild, one shot first boss on 8 man SM). Wiping is apart of raiding. Get good.
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krinaman's Avatar


krinaman
04.15.2012 , 07:10 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Iandayen View Post
You need to learn the mechanics and how to deal with them properly.
And what about those people who have no desire to do that?

Quote:
The mechanics aren't hard, there is no "dance" as you put it.
The dance as I put it is the learning the mechanics and how to deal with them.

Quote:
The fight has been severely nerfed in multiple ways on the PTS since it was first released and I killed it in every form.
Good for you?

What does this have to do with the people I am talking about?

Quote:
There is about 1/3 the incoming damage it had when it was originally on the pts, it has a minute longer enrage timer, it is way more relaxed.
Once again, so what?

Quote:
Just because you couldn't beat it by trying to brute force your way through it doesn't mean it can't be beaten.
When did I say I couldn't beat it or that it's unbeatable?

I said that there is a large portion of the playerbase that will not find this kind of content fun. Your response seems to be that you like it and L2PLAY. Although hardly a surprise response but it it completely ignores the problem.

hawkeyesfan's Avatar


hawkeyesfan
04.15.2012 , 07:27 PM | #14
And it begins in earnest.

I've posted in a few other posts about this. People are braving the forums and the ridicule they will encounter because as many have honestly pointed out. This may be a bit much for story mode. It will only get worse.

Give casual raiders the difficulty of EV/KP on normal then pull the rug out and make them be aware of actual mechanics. Bad move Bioware when you made it sound at G summit that story would be 'even easier'. They had better clarify their stance in an official memo if this is the intended difficutly for story mode or like someone above said casuals and puggers will stop raiding and possibly unsub.

/popcorn (gonna be great forum fun just like first month of Cataclysm when I predicted the same thing) Makes for great reading!

Dacce's Avatar


Dacce
04.15.2012 , 07:38 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by TheWiggleFish View Post
snip.... at least one person in columi and worse (he had a lvl 27 green item...).
how does anyone have columi AND a level 27 green..... thats... really poor form
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Iandayen's Avatar


Iandayen
04.15.2012 , 07:56 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by krinaman View Post
And what about those people who have no desire to do that?

Then they shouldn't be raiding. End of argument.

You aren't going to get everything handed to you for free, you have to work for it.
Hardpeck - Arsenal Mercenary
Ambient.enjin.com

Boissi's Avatar


Boissi
04.15.2012 , 07:59 PM | #17
It is sort of hard to be called "story mode", but then the loot in there is really good as well. I think if they ever decide to nerf it, it'll have to be after nightmare comes out. I'm not sure it needs any nerfing though. I cleared the place tonight, and every fight was just all about learning the tactics. There wasn't any insanely intense healing needed, or difficult enrage timers, or anything like that. You just need the raid to understand the mechanics. We made mistakes and wiped several times, and we were fairly well geared, but it all came down to just knowing the tactics, as it should. Once we had them sorted out, and people made less mistakes, the bosses were really easy. If even guilds are having trouble with the first boss on your server, well.. you have pretty poor guilds. It was an incredibly easy fight. So easy and boring that I actually had to think real hard to remember what that fight was.

I will admit that the last boss might be a bit overtuned for pugs. There's a pretty big dps-check in there, though it can be helped with some well-timed stuns. But I don't want the place to be nerfed yet. I want pugs to experience the instance as it is, and know the feeling of downing a hard boss. Casual guilds should definitely be able to beat every boss in there, no question. I think the name "story mode" is quite dumb, because it's not like you go in there to just watch some cinematics. If one likes story and doesn't like raiding.. I suggest youtube. Arguing that even people that don't like raiding and don't want to learn encounters should be able to beat it seems really stupid, but I guess that's bioware's fault for coming up with "story mode." If it was still just normal mode people wouldn't make this argument.. or at least it'd be easier to dismiss it.
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Fabricated's Avatar


Fabricated
04.15.2012 , 08:06 PM | #18
We went straight into 16-man hardmode and didn't get the first bosses down but I don't think it needs -severely- nerfed. Tone down the raid damage a bit and make that stupid rock-throw you need to break the berserk NOT TARGET THE TANKS and I'd be happy myself.

I'm not a fan of gatekeeper bosses myself. I prefer progressive difficulty myself.

krinaman's Avatar


krinaman
04.15.2012 , 08:20 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Iandayen View Post
Then they shouldn't be raiding. End of argument.
Fair enough, just dont get mad when they stop producing content for 5% of the population

Fabricated's Avatar


Fabricated
04.15.2012 , 08:23 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Iandayen View Post
Then they shouldn't be raiding. End of argument.

You aren't going to get everything handed to you for free, you have to work for it.
Just a reminder that WoW went in this direction.

3 Million Unsubs later, they nerfed the then current raid tier (firelands) HARD, then later released the LFR tool and 3 easy 5-mans that crap epic loot of the item-level needed to hit the final raid raid tier. They also gave people free level-cap characters, mounts, etc if they resubbed. And you got D3 for free if you bought a year-long sub so their numbers wouldn't further decrease.

Catering to grognards kills your MMO. Sorry.